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Which way to Join this set?
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Author:  Quine [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Which way to Join this set?

I got a sweet set of figured mahogany at John Ressler's chicago get-together last fall. I can't decide on which way to join it. I'm having a real aesthetic crisis here! [headinwall]
What do you guys think? Option A or Option B? The flame figure is pretty nice either way, maybe a little bit stronger in B. I'm planing on a OM size. The butt end would be on the left side of the pic.
Opinions please....

Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

I like both , howeve I think "B" would be my choice as well . Seems tp "pop" a lil more to me. Either way , it wil be a sweet looking set ! [:Y:]

Author:  TomDl [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

I suppose there could be a musical as well as an aesthetic answer.

Aesthetically figure should be evaluated with the shape of the guitar you intend to buid in mind. So place your mold or plastic pattern over the back to see what it will look like. The main issue is how the guitar draws the eyes, and whether that suits one or the other sweep of the figure which will also want to pull the eyes. While it may not mater in this case, you should also try to visualize what will happen when finish is applied there can again be certain eye movement implications if different parts of the back shine when "wet" than dry.

At a more pragmatic level, there can be figure that gets cut out when you lay the pattern over. I wouldn't let that lead you against the overall effect, but it is worth nooding before selecting the set in the first place.

Then there is the whole look at pretty pictures and do what they did thing.

Musically, because the grain is quite flared in this case, you will end up with a different kind of back by selecting one over the other. I have no idea how that will work for you. It is just worth noting that fact as part of your info as you go ahead. Also, if one had in mind a particular objective one could compare the grain in that case. Imagine it were a top and it was being lattice braced, the major movement is in the edges, there would be significant differences in the grain being parallel or 45 degrees to the sides. Getting back to backs, that grain orientation would be near parallel to some radial braces one sees on guitars these days. Not sure I would want that. If you were just using standard transverse bracing, it would no longer be perpendicular to the grain. Just things to watch out for, or ignore. :)

By the way, as material allows you don't have to use the established lines. You could consider slightly different skew to the edge, neither is going to be aligned parallel, so you can play with the joint angle both for strength and visual effect.

Author:  Zach Ehley [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

B

Author:  gozierdt [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

I'd go for B, with the upper bout to the right in that picture.

Author:  letseatpaste [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

gozierdt wrote:
I'd go for B, with the upper bout to the right in that picture.


I was just about to say the same thing

Author:  DennisK [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

letseatpaste wrote:
gozierdt wrote:
I'd go for B, with the upper bout to the right in that picture.


I was just about to say the same thing

Agree. With pointy style heel to continue the shape of the grain :)

Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

DennisK wrote:
letseatpaste wrote:
gozierdt wrote:
I'd go for B, with the upper bout to the right in that picture.


I was just about to say the same thing

Agree. With pointy style heel to continue the shape of the grain :)



ditto

Author:  TomDl [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

So in refining the trim of B, do you want this:

Image


or this:

Image

Within the frame of you guitar.

Author:  letseatpaste [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

I think I'd like the church door with just a little canoe at the bottom.

Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

I'm with the B, upper bout to the right but I really want that boat (dory?) :mrgreen:

Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

Definitely B. Looks so much more natural to me.

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

B, without a doubt!

Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

Quoting the old Sesame Street hit...

Letter B, letter B, letter B, letter B ...

etc.

Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

Another vote for B. As for the trim, if you can work with stone, I'd trim the guitar just like that church door.

Steve

Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

TomDl wrote:
I suppose there could be a musical as well as an aesthetic answer.

Aesthetically figure should be evaluated with the shape of the guitar you intend to buid in mind. So place your mold or plastic pattern over the back to see what it will look like. The main issue is how the guitar draws the eyes, and whether that suits one or the other sweep of the figure which will also want to pull the eyes. While it may not mater in this case, you should also try to visualize what will happen when finish is applied there can again be certain eye movement implications if different parts of the back shine when "wet" than dry.

At a more pragmatic level, there can be figure that gets cut out when you lay the pattern over. I wouldn't let that lead you against the overall effect, but it is worth nooding before selecting the set in the first place.



Then there is the whole look at pretty pictures and do what they did thing.

Musically, because the grain is quite flared in this case, you will end up with a different kind of back by selecting one over the other. I have no idea how that will work for you. It is just worth noting that fact as part of your info as you go ahead. Also, if one had in mind a particular objective one could compare the grain in that case. Imagine it were a top and it was being lattice braced, the major movement is in the edges, there would be significant differences in the grain being parallel or 45 degrees to the sides. Getting back to backs, that grain orientation would be near parallel to some radial braces one sees on guitars these days. Not sure I would want that. If you were just using standard transverse bracing, it would no longer be perpendicular to the grain. Just things to watch out for, or ignore. :)

By the way, as material allows you don't have to use the established lines. You could consider slightly different skew to the edge, neither is going to be aligned parallel, so you can play with the joint angle both for strength and visual effect.



SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO was there an "a" or "b" in this answer ? idunno

Author:  Rod True [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

Filippo Morelli wrote:
When I am doing layout, I find it very helpful to take a piece of cardboard or paper and cut out the body shape. Laying that over the wood will really help your eyes get a sense of how the grain works within the body of the guitar and its curves. It will also help you determine exactly where you want to cut the wood to retain or lose certain figure, et cetera. Do the same with peghead veneers and your peghead design.

Cheers,

Filippo


Yup, but with acrylic is just more helpful. But this is what I'd do. You don't have to be set on the existing edge's to be the center line. You can layout the shape however you want within the confines of the material.

But the short answer would be, B

Author:  jsmith [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

First of all, musically speaking, the grain orientation of the back is not going to appreciably affect the sound of a steel string guitar. I doubt that it would on a classical, either. Aesthetics? You have to decide yourself. I prefer the 'cathedral' look.

Like Filippo, I take a rectangle of poster board or cardboard, cut out the guitar body shape, then lay the rectangle with the guitar shaped void over the back (or top). It generally clarifies matters.

Author:  Philip Perdue [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

This is a new one for me. I normally focus on the side to see how well, if at all, they are book matched. The sides end up getting joined to making two ukulele backs. The two back halves get split to make 4 sides. idunno

I believe that B would be my preference. The figure will complement the shape of the instrument. A would be fine also. Cut a template out of paper for the whole shape of the guitar body. This way you can see only the wood as it would appear on the back. Maybe this view gives you a better look at what you want. [:Y:]

Philip

Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

B.
L.

Author:  Quine [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

WOW....unanimous voting on B! I hear the A campaign demanding a recount already. I guess with wood from Chicago, you get Chicago style voting too laughing6-hehe
Thanks for the trim suggestions TomDI....But I'm not sure if oarlocks would be very practical in the binding :?

Author:  ChuckB [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

Definitely B for me. "A" causes an almost endgrain glue joint and a short grain situation which could crack easier with humidity swings.

Chuck

Author:  Steve Davis [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

ChuckB wrote:
Definitely B for me. "A" causes an almost endgrain glue joint and a short grain situation which could crack easier with humidity swings.

Chuck

Well observed
That would seal the deal for me
another B

Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Which way to Join this set?

Aesthetically if possible I always try to make the grain patterns reflect the form of the instrument itself and thus I would choose "B" though sets don't always give you a lot of choices especially if there are flaws that you need to work around.

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