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Do Not Look Here!
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Author:  npalen [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Do Not Look Here!

http://www.flutedbeams.com/musicalinstruments/guitars.html
I had not seen this website previously and just curious about personal reactions.
Nelson

Author:  Markus Schmid [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

npalen wrote:
[...] just curious about personal reactions. [...]

None. I stay away from ammonia which is too agressive for me and, as far as I know the only way to bend wood if you don't want to apply heat, steam, etc.

Author:  jac68984 [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

Very interesting and quite impressive. Never heard of such a thing. To be fair Markus, the company implies that no ammonia is used (though they don't particularly state this). From the website, I gathered the process relies on compressing the wood from its ends, causing the wood to, in effect, collapse upon itself allowing for expansion while bending thereafter. If they gave me a free set of black walnut sides, I'd give it a go. But at $160 a set for just sides, I'll continue to bend as usual. Black walnut bends quite well anyway.

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

Looks a lot like "Bendy Wood" to me, which is an architectural product for curved banisters, and moldings, and such. It is made by using heat and pressure to change the properties of the wood, pressing the fibers in on themselves, so when it is bent cold, they are able to slide against each other. I'm not sure there isn't some compromise to the "musical" properties of the wood in the process.

Author:  Markus Schmid [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

jac68984 wrote:
[...] To be fair Markus, the company implies that no ammonia is used (though they don't particularly state this). From the website, I gathered the process relies on compressing the wood from its ends, causing the wood to, in effect, collapse upon itself allowing for expansion while bending thereafter. [...]
I missed that detail where they mention how they bend their wood (just saw the mantraic repetition of "Cold Bend TM" ).

But now I found it:
flutedbeams.com wrote:
Cold-Bend™ hardwood undergoes extreme physical, longitudinal thermo-mechanical compression. There is no chemical treatment, [...]
[...]
The patented and trademarked Cold-Bend™ hardwood process begins by steaming the planks under pressure in a large autoclave. The hot, wet boards are then placed in the compression chamber of the Cold-Bend™ hardwood press [...]
Cited from: http://www.flutedbeams.com/discovery/manufacturing.html

Thermo-mechanical? Steamed? Hot?
Sounds like temperature involved...

But well, as long as it bends it's ok ;)
Interesting technique anyway.

Author:  npalen [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cold+bend+wood&aq=f
Lots of videos for those with fast connections.

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

Just like I said - Sounds like Bendy Wood. Go to their website, and see. http://www.bendywood.info/index.php?lang=english Been around for 5 or 6 years, but not for "guitar woods". Same process, Wet Heat, then longitudinal compression. You can't tell me it doesn't change the properties of the wood. I have a couple of pieces in my shop, and you can bend them into a 3" or 4" circle, and they will stay there, then you can bend them back. That's the property I wouldn't want. When I bend a side, I want it to stay bent!

Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

Like a lot of "innovations", it is a solution looking for a problem.
All the (domestic) woods they sell bend rather easily, even when a little thick.
Besides, I can't imagine the weight supplement with such thick sides. So, what is the point?

Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

It's really cool stuff though. I played with some at the show a few year ago. I tied a knot by hand with a 1.5x1.5 piece of oak or maybe it was maple. Supposedly, after you let it dry, it stiffens up and is just like regular wood. If I had time to do sculpture or crazy furniture, I'd think about it. I'm with Waddy though. I bet it effects tonal qualities.

Mike

Author:  npalen [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

Wonder what some of the issues might be when trying to use it for a pressed archtop plate?
I doubt that they make pieces that wide and thin but it does make a guy think about it.
The density of the wood increases dramatically if I remember correctly.
Nelson

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

That would be my perception. The stuff I saw some years ago at one of the Woodworking Shows was Beech.

Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

If you poke around here - you will find a few posts from a year or 2 ago... A few builders tried it out... Turns out to work just fine for sides....

I agree that it doesn't make sense price wise for guitar sides in garden variety North American hardwoods..... but if you were going to do architectural work with 2x12 curved hardwood beams... It would be just the ticket.

Thanks

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

Or a 40 foot spiral staircase Bannister.

Author:  Cocephus [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do Not Look Here!

IMHO, it seems to me that the cost of the product and/or setup for that operation (meaning the 2-way press) wouldn`t earn its keep.
Furniture bends and the such are fine by me, but for instruments?
I don`t think so.
Besides, where`s the joy of seeing and feeling something complying under your very own hands?
Coe Franklin

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