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Building for someone in the military
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Author:  BobK [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Building for someone in the military
My father in law has asked me to build a guitar for a member of the family who will be deploying sometime in late Spring. We haven't discussed the build yet, it's a Christmas present, but I'm going to try to guide him into one of my small Stella sized short scale models. Given that I've never been in the service and don't know the mechanics of how troops (Army) leave and return to the country I have a a few concerns. Re: the new CITES restrictions is he going to have trouble returning to the States with a guitar that has mahogany or shell on it? Will he get grief for travelling with a hardshell case? Is space a problem - can he even have something as large as a dred? Anything else I should be concerned with? Also, anyone know what the RH is in the middle east or afghanistan?


Bob
Author:  matt jacobs [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Hi Bob,
There are really only two ways to get a guitar there. One is ship it USPS, the other is to put it in a container before you deploy. It is unlikely he'll be able to carry it on a plane, it depends on a lot of factors like , type of plane, route, etc...
If you mail it you run the usual shipping and customs risks of sending things through the mail. If he can get it on in a container or on a plane he should be OK, they are usually looking for contraband not CITES violations.
As far as RH, I don't have accurate info, but I'm sure you can look it up online. Afghanistan is very dry, Most of Iraq is pretty dry, I suspect less than 40% RH. The arabian coastal countries like, Quatar, and Bahrain, can be very humid from what I've heard, though I haven't actually been there.
Hope that helps
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
You may want to direct your questions here:http://www.guitargal.com/guitars4troops.html. There's also another organisation sending guitars away to soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't recall the name. In any case the guitars sent are usually laminated cheap(er) imports: no way to control RH or temp during transport and deployment. As far as I know it is not forbidden to export/import mahogany or common shell when made into a guitar.
Author:  Bill Bounds [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Hey:
I just sent a guitar to junior in Afganastan last week. I chose to send him a 100.00 guitar. And save the one I'm building for his return. I sent it UsPS in the box it came in from the guitar store. It cost 23.00 for postage with insurance. He told mom that he got it the other day in great shape. I stuffed the box with extra strings.picks and tuner etc. Have an inventory ready ( with est. weight of items) for shipping, you have to list things for customs. He said as far as climate, think Nevada. Todays weather there is 65 degrees, 22 percent humidity. I googled relative humidity and it said 35.3 average for the year.
Bill
Author:  YJ John [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Send him with a Yamaha F335. Its a CHEAP, good playing TANK. It will take the crap and when it dies it will not shed a tear. Send him pictures of the magnificent Guitar being born and awaiting him.
Author:  BobK [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Thanks guys, all your input is appreciated. Good to know how the process works. My first thought was that a cheap import would be the way to go, but I didn't want to turn down my father in law's request. The guy is a player and already has a couple of instruments. Maybe I can suggest that he takes a clunker with him and leaves mine at home.

Thanks again,

Bob
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Think about a laminate model with a totally awesome setup.... I think that would make anyone happy.... I'm talking a full-on fret level and crown, bone nut, saddle, and bridge pins, and last - a perfect action..

That way it'll be a fun campfire guitar but if it gets mushed - no tears will be shed.

Or... just go ahead and build a great instrument and Don't worry about it. Wear and dings are part of the life of an instrument that is played a lot... Some people call it "Mojo"

Thanks
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
During my military career I hauled a Martin 0-16NY throughout the world which included southern Europe, the middle east, all over the US, and a few unnamed places. There were a few years in the mountains of Colorado, a year and a half in Florida, and even more years in a lot of deserts. It's been cargo on C-130's plenty of times under nets or in CONEXs and has been checked baggage on airliners even more. I had no clue I wasn't supposed to treat it like that. It picked up a few cracks but it has played well for 40 years with those cracks so I'm not real worried. Being able to go sit somewhere and play that guitar saved my sanity more than once and we had a lot of good times just sitting around pounding out some songs that reminded us of home while we were in some really strange and distant places.

The guitar probably won't stay pristine but if the guy can play then a good guitar is such a joy that I'd say its one of the more worthwhile ways to use up an instrument. I've still got that 0-16NY, its in my shop getting a neck reset, new frets and, yes, I'm fixing the cracks ;)

Small is good since space is often at a premium. I would not waste any time on bling and use common woods; customs people in other countries don't seem to care much about a plain looking guitar. I'd stay away from shell or anything that might raise a question. If I was doing it I think I would build at 30% RH or so to give it a better chance to survive the desert. A good hardshell case is a must.
Author:  JasonMoe [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
I am a guitar builder, and I also work for the USPS. We have a couple of guitar shops that ship USPS. When you ship USPS for APO/FPO troop mail, we all take pride in care of the mail. My older brother is going to Afganistan this spring also. We handle all kinds of military mail. Over the last 8 years, we have shipped alot of coffen case electrics, and fender strats to military zones.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
It is ABSOLUTELY against the laws and regs of your US Fish and Wildlife service to import or export shell to/from the US. You need a permit, as I have just received mine .. basically if you are not, you are really just flying under the radar ... as most of us have been for years, but they are catching on ...
Author:  BobK [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Thanks again for all the input. I'll post some update pics when I start the build in the next few weeks.

Bob
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
BobK wrote:
My father in law has asked me to build a guitar for a member of the family who will be deploying sometime in late Spring. We haven't discussed the build yet, it's a Christmas present, but I'm going to try to guide him into one of my small Stella sized short scale models. Given that I've never been in the service and don't know the mechanics of how troops (Army) leave and return to the country I have a a few concerns. Re: the new CITES restrictions is he going to have trouble returning to the States with a guitar that has mahogany or shell on it? Will he get grief for travelling with a hardshell case? Is space a problem - can he even have something as large as a dred? Anything else I should be concerned with? Also, anyone know what the RH is in the middle east or afghanistan?


Bob


that's great,
I just returned from Iraq in August. You will have no issues with Cites or anything like that. My main concern would be damage to the guitar because it will take a beating over there. Even though we have A/C everywhere, the power goes out regularly. In the summer it is over 140 degrees at times, and when the power goes out, it heats up really quickly. temp change like that obviously wreaks havoc on guitars. Shipping is another issue. Best bet is to send it USPS during the cold season. By cold season I mean 60 to 70 degrees. But this is also the rain season and they get a lot of rain. Southern Iraq, near Basrah where the Tigris and Euphrates meet before emptying into the Gulf is absolutely nasty and incredibly hot and humid for much of the year. Both rivers flood and that part of the country is a lake for that part of the year until it gets so hot that the water evaporates. At which point the moisture will also leave the guitar to be replaced by temperature fluctuation in in excess of 60 degrees in a short period of time at least weekly.

Shipping is the least of your problems. All military bases (APO AE addresses) are considered US addresses and postage is priced accordingly. 20 bucks to ship a guitar to Iraq is cheap. However I wouldn't ship a valuable instrument to that dump. It's just not worth it. A guitar like this should be a great thing to look forward to coming home to. I shipped many guitars to Iraq while I was there. I also saw a lot of guitars that had spent a year there that were borderline unplayable. I would recommend one of two things.
1. Ship him a solid top Fender acoustic, they are like $150.00 and it would still probably be the nicest guitar in Iraq.
2. Recommend a mid level composite guitar instead which are great for harsh environments, just rough on the eye.

If you do end up shipping a gorgeous custom over there, be sure to give specific instructions on how to care for it. I used to see guys sitting outside in the sun in 120 degree heat at a BBQ playing guitars. IMO/experience, Iraq/Afganistan is no place for a high end guitar.

If you have any more questions, let me know, I'd be happy to help you out

Joey
Author:  BobK [ Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Thank you Joey, I appreciate both your advice and of course your service. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning toward doing a good setup on one of his clunkers and then building something that he can keep at home. It just seems like the more practical solution.

Thanks again,

Bob
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
BobK wrote:
Thank you Joey, I appreciate both your advice and of course your service. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning toward doing a good setup on one of his clunkers and then building something that he can keep at home. It just seems like the more practical solution.

Thanks again,

Bob


No problem,
A good setup on a decent guitar goes a long way. I actually liked this model guitar (much to my surprise) while I was in Iraq. I was bored so I installed a bone nut, saddle and bridge pins and it actually didn't sound too bad. Obviously nowhere near the quality of what you would build, but it'll work for a year. It's all laminate too so it should hold up better. Plus when he leaves, he can sell it to another soldier and not have to worry about shipping an expensive guitar back home. When he gets home, he'll appreciate the new custom that much more.

Just my $0.02.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-DG60-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=620506

Joey
Author:  JRHall [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
How about making a convertible?

build as nice a neck as you want, then for the war zone mate it up to an HPL body (Martin X series style)with a 2 piece top (for crack resistance). I've built HPL guitars and they sound surprisingly good, and they go together quick. No finish, no binding and you just stuff the sides in the mold with no bending.

While he's gone, work on a nice body, worthy of a vet, to transfer the neck to.

If this interests you, I have a pre-cut Brazilian HPL side and back set that I would donate to the cause.

Jim
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Todd .. shell is different because it is an animal product - and the transport of animals and their products over borders is restricted by the US fish and wildlife folks .... in both directions - this is why some shell delaers in the US will now not ship outside the US - they are bound to do paperwork on each and every shipment, no matter the size - or risk losing their permits all together - thats suicide.

So if you are selling a guitar that will cross the border .. you are the exporter, and require the license ...
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Tony, is this valid for materials used in an object (i.e. decorative shell used on a guitar), or is this valid only for raw materials?
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
As far as I can tell Laurent .. anything with shell .. it doesnt seem to matter, there is no distinction ... call the F&W for your area, likely the same as me here, I called the office in New York and talk to them about it.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Thanks Tony, this is not good news.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
Tell me about it .. lacey, this ...whats next ... I had heard that Andy Depaule was thinking about relocating to Vietnam - its a pain for him to get stuff in now, even with a permit, and this paperwork will kill his out of country business ...
Author:  BobK [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
JR Hall, that's an interesting idea and a generous offer. I'll get a better idea of what he's thinking when I speak to him this weekend. But, I may take you up on your offer.

Tony, Thanks for the education. It sounds like this is a bigger issue than many of us thought. Maybe folks who sell will have to start including disclaimers against future additions to the protected list. It's probably just a matter of time before ebony and Indian rosewood come into play.
Author:  JRHall [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building for someone in the military
BobK wrote:
JR Hall, that's an interesting idea and a generous offer. I'll get a better idea of what he's thinking when I speak to him this weekend. But, I may take you up on your offer.


Thanks, and just to sweeten the deal, I just remembered I picked up some dred tops from Martin this summer. Some kind of composite, looks carbon fiber-ish, but I wouldn't guarantee it. Use epoxy to assemble the body and it would be pretty robust.

Jim
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