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Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
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Author:  Philip Perdue [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
Well, I have been fitting a dove tail neck and have failed miserably. idunno I guess I’m too simple for a simple joint. It appears that I have removed too much material from the heel mating surface. I have added wood to the tenon portion (?) and have tried setting it twice with the same result. This is a direct result of misconception and poor judgment. Now I have seen the John Hall videos on setting a dove tail neck and they are helpful.

My thoughts are to add either a piece of mahogany on the heel or cut it back a small bit and add an ebony strip. The reason I mention ebony is that that I have some on hand and the binding, bridge, and fret board are ebony. Maybe it would appear as a support to the design with a vertical ebony stripe at the mating surface. The top and the bottom would be covered with the fret board and heel cap so it would only appear as a line of black. I don’t know if the ebony would make to too difficult to floss for the fit.

Any thoughts?

Thank You as always

Philip
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
How much material have you removed? I joked with someone on my first that I was building a 13-1/2 fret guitar, but it really wasn't that bad. How far past the 14th fret location are you (assuming it's a 14 fretter, of course).
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
can you send pics ?
Author:  Philip Perdue [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
Unfortunately, my camera is missing in action so no photos. The neck is sitting down into the joint so the top of the neck is even with the sound board. The angle of the neck looks ok and the center line while not perfect is good. The right side of the heel does not mate to the guitar side and there is an obvious gap. The left side is pretty close. I will glue a couple of pieces of veneer on the tenon and try once more and see if I get the same result. It just looks like I adjusted one side too much.

John, I'm off to watch your videos again. Thanks for your hard work in providing them. [:Y:]

Philip
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
Glad to help. You can shim the joint . Focus on tight joint and don't forget to floss LOL
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
John knows 1,000,000,000 times more than me, but I can't see how to shim it (invisibly) if the heel cheeks are already cut too short.

Please post pics.

And then, please post pics of whatever you end up doing to resolve it.

I have seen one guitar where the luthier put binding on the heel, to hide the fact that the heel cheeks were too short. Probably fine for the casual observer (maybe even cool) but it looked like an obvious repair to me.

How about some other options?

1. Don't worry about 12th or 14th fret lining up with body/neck join. Obvious, yes, but not as obvious as the bound heel.

2. (Gently) yank the fingerboard off, get the neck/heel set beautifully then either:
a. glue the fingerboard back on, and use a narrow nut, or shim under the trailing edge of the nut
b. make a new fingerboard, to some custom scale defined by the distance from where you want the nut end to start and the body/neck join. Just keep fidgeting with the StewMac fret distance calculator until you get that distance. Yes, that means not using your LMI or StewMac fretting template, or maybe getting very creative with mounting the template on a slight angle, to get the shorter scale length you'll need.

If you do 1 or 2b, remember your saddle location will be a tiny bit different than what it would have been, so check that twice before gluing down the bridge.

Dennis

{edit} OK, I see you have no camera now. Try to at least photograph the result, later, and show us.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
Just cause it's simple don't mean it's easy! But you should still be able to shim the sides of the tenon.
Author:  Haans [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
I like Dennis' #2a answer, but I would just take a X-acto saw or similar, put your nut in place and carefully saw a bit of the peghead veneer back and file the bottom flat.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
I wouldn't call a dove tail a simple joint. On paper, maybe, but in practice no. Having said that, I've done many resets where you have to remove a lot of material and shim it back to normal so you should be able to get away with this.
Author:  Steve Davis [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on resolving a poor dovetail neck set
This was a simple mortice and Tenon
Planed back to about F9 glued on new cheeks and reshaped and fit
On the guitar it is barely noticeable to anyone but a Luthier(I like to think!)
The mating surfaces of heel to body are the priority
any slop in the joint inside can be shimmed
Good Luck
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