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Jointer/Planer Combos?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30093		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Jointer/Planer Combos?
I find myself using my planer less and less these days and I would love to get a jointer wider than my current 8". Given an already crowded shop, I've been thinking about a 12" combo machine. Anybody have any experience to share?

I don't mind if it takes a few minutes to switch tasks but I'm concerned with accuracy, especially for the jointer. I'd like to dial it in and have it stay that way when it's switched back and forth.

Also, anyone have experience with the Grizzly brand spiral cutterhead? I have a Shelix on my jointer and will never go back to straight knives.

Thanks.
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
No experience but I have heard a lot of positive reviews about the Felder/Hammer J/P combos, pricey though.

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/products/jointer–planers/jointer-planer-a3-31.html&zoom=true

Laguna has a good looking helical unit but I have heard not so great things about it, just FYI.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Depending how big your planer is .. maybe you can make it fit somehwere else ... my 450 lb. 15 inch wide machine is now off its original stand, and sitting on a double thick birch ply base with 4 inch wheels .. it actually rolls underneath the extension table on my table saw (thats its new home) - completely out of the way. For small stuff like Fbs, or neck lam pieces, I simply kneel down and run stuff thru .. if the piece is longer, I can wheel it out to wherever the job can be done, then wheel it back. Dont know why I never thought of this years ago ....
Author:  GregG [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
I just don't seem to use my planer any more either, wonder if it might be more practical for you to get a 12"+ jointer, cost-wise it would save some money and you could keep your planer hidden in a corner for the rare usage. Some of those combo machines look well made, and are probably fine, but I wonder if a single purpose jointer would be a better choice.....don't know?

Greg
Author:  ChuckB [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Kent, I have a Jet 10" combo. I would not recommend it if you are looking for the accuracy you're getting from an 8" jointer. I find it adequate to level rough cut billets for resawing but not for accurate jointing, the table is aluminum and not very long. I would look at a heavier duty unit with a cast iron table and 12 " capability if I were to do it again. They are pricey though....One other thing, due to being a combo unit, the jointer table ends up being higher than normal, which can be a little cumbersome with a 3 x 9.5 x 3 foot billet, and a short table.

Chuck
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Edward, I can't afford the good machines. :) Guess I should have said that up front.

Chuck, it looks like there is a big jump in quality from the Jet 10" to the 12". It gets pretty good reviews and is on sale. There seems to be some question about whether both the planer and jointer can be well adjusted at the same time but if I can get the jointer dead nuts (what's the etymology of that?), I don't need the planer to be perfect. The Jet with the helical cutter is not on sale but the sale price on the other one is good enough that I could buy a Shelix and still be in the ballpark of the Grizzly price.

As for keeping my planer and just upgrading my jointer, there are a number of reasons that won't work. The combo machines are about the same price. As for space, my planer is a 15" Jet and it's already on a mobile base under a bench but even that kind of space is tight in my shop. Part of the reason I don't use it as much as I'd like is because it doesn't have a helical cutter. The only way I can really make sense of upgrading the jointer is by selling my jointer and planer to pay for it and getting a bonus of saving space.

Maybe I'll start a new thread about the Grizzly spiral cutter. Looks like it may come down to the Jet or Grizzly and the cutter.

Thanks all.
Author:  Bobc [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Kent Chasson wrote:
Edward, I can't afford the good machines. :) Guess I should have said that up front.

Chuck, it looks like there is a big jump in quality from the Jet 10" to the 12". It gets pretty good reviews and is on sale. There seems to be some question about whether both the planer and jointer can be well adjusted at the same time but if I can get the jointer dead nuts (what's the etymology of that?), I don't need the planer to be perfect. The Jet with the helical cutter is not on sale but the sale price on the other one is good enough that I could buy a Shelix and still be in the ballpark of the Grizzly price.

As for keeping my planer and just upgrading my jointer, there are a number of reasons that won't work. The combo machines are about the same price. As for space, my planer is a 15" Jet and it's already on a mobile base under a bench but even that kind of space is tight in my shop. Part of the reason I don't use it as much as I'd like is because it doesn't have a helical cutter. The only way I can really make sense of upgrading the jointer is by selling my jointer and planer to pay for it and getting a bonus of saving space.

Maybe I'll start a new thread about the Grizzly spiral cutter. Looks like it may come down to the Jet or Grizzly and the cutter.

Thanks all.


Kent I have Grizzly 15" planer and a 12" jointer both with the spiral cutter head and it works just fine. No complaints.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
I sold my planer but I do have a thickness sander . I use 36 grit paper for "planing" boards
Author:  jason c [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
I read a reveiw of the Grizzly 12" combo w/ spiral cutterhead and the Laguna version (at least I think it was the Laguna). The reviewers bottom line was that they're practically the same as far as quality and accuracy but he leaned toward the Grizzly. I'm going to get the Grizzly as soon as I can muster up the coin.
Jason
Author:  runamuck [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
The best combo machines I've found have been made by Ryobi or Hitachi but, made in Japan. You can find them occassionally for sale, used.

Jointer fence accuracy for edge joining is hard to find, I've found.

What I've done is to take a shaper, mount a large diameter straight cutter on it, and make an offset fence - with the offset from the infeed to outfeed side being equal to the depth of cut. It produces 100% accurate, 90 degree cuts every time, although mine doesn't work with anything thicker than 8/4 lumber because of the height of my cutter.
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
The Inca Jointer/Planer 510-570 are still around and built like Swiss watches. Jesse at Eagle Tools in Los Angeles keeps a few ready for sale with lots of replacement parts if you can't find one on the used market. These pop up on Craigslist regularly. I don't think you'll get a better machine or finish in a smaller package. If I were downsizing or just did instruments I would be looking at them. My Dewalt 13" planer and longbed 8" jointer work great for my needs.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
I just checked out the Fine Woodworking video that is on their review page. While the machines may be very fine, the process of changing from one mode to the other looks like it would get very tedious after awhile! It may take only a couple of minutes, and that is fine if you are settling into doing a lot of planing, or a lot of jointing...but if you have to go back and forth repeatedly over the course of a work day. I'd rather have dedicated machines.

I already have to change the drive belt over on my machine whenever I change from planing to jointing and I am tired of that. I run a Hitachi F1000a, a side by side combination machine, and it runs two belts. One for the planer and one for the jointer. This is fine, but I burnt through one of them, two weeks after the part was discontinued! I am looking for more belts, anybody know of a source?

(edit) Just found this, apparently this is a source: http://www.beltsforanything.com/site6.php I hope that it works!)

(re-edit) And I made the first edit before I found Mark's suggestion of beltsforanything later in this thread! But I did find them well before I edited , but after I read his suggestion. So I am not that inept! Thanks! I'll be looking into them on Monday.
Author:  Billy T [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Kent Chasson wrote:
but if I can get the jointer dead nuts (what's the etymology of that?) Thanks all.


Double 0!!
.00
Zero'd in!


You're welcome! :D
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
douglas ingram wrote:
I just checked out the Fine Woodworking video that is on their review page. While the machines may be very fine, the process of changing from one mode to the other looks like it would get very tedious after awhile! It may take only a couple of minutes, and that is fine if you are settling into doing a lot of planing, or a lot of jointing...but if you have to go back and forth repeatedly over the course of a work day. I'd rather have dedicated machines.

I already have to change the drive belt over on my machine whenever I change from planing to jointing and I am tired of that. I run a Hitachi F1000a, a side by side combination machine, and it runs two belts. One for the planer and one for the jointer. This is fine, but I burnt through one of them, two weeks after the part was discontinued! I am looking for more belts, anybody know of a source?


Douglas,
This place has the belts listed as on back order until December 15: http://www.ereplacementparts.com/hitachi-f1000a-planer-jointer-parts-c-7927_13337_15110.html Maybe beltsforanything will have them (and have them cheaper too :o )
Author:  SimonF [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
I had a Minimax 12" Jointer/Planer combination. This is just a step below the Felder but a step above the Laguna and a big step above the offerings from Jet/Grizzly/etc...

My machine worked very well but I did have trouble with the outfeed and infeed table alignment. The design was not a parallelogram design and in my opinion, you really need that kind of design to truly setup a jointer. However, the setup was pretty close to ideal and did not change when reversing operations. I credit that to the beefy construction and intelligent design. Practically speaking, it worked very, very well but I could never get the tables aligned with each other as ideally as I wanted.

Personally, I would recommend a single operation jointer. If I need to hog off a lot of wood I just use my bandsaw and touch up with my wide-belt sander. Like you, I have the shelix cutterhead (on a 12" Grizzly Jointer) and would never go back to anything else. For the kind of woods we use, the shelix is invaluable. I am sure the Grizzly version works just fine.

Best Regards,
Simon
Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
What do you guys do with a 12" jointer? Just curious.
Author:  Greenman [ Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
:mrgreen: I have a 8" jointer with the carbide insert cutterhead and a Inca 510 combo with straight knives. The Inca is a perfect size for a luthier 10 1/4" wide. I just wish it has a carbide insert cutter head which I love. You can plane any figure and it comes out great. I was a Inca dealer in the Eighties and am on a Inca forum where we try to help each other maintain our machines. I would keep an eye on Craigslist or Ebay for a 510, 550, 560, or 570. The last two models have a tersa cutterhead. The Rikon combo looks like an Ok machine is a copy of the Inca but made in China and cheapened up a bit is the same size and looks much better than the Jet 10". It is really nice to have a wide jointer to straighten billets to resaw and the Inca doesn't take up to much space in my crowded shop.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Thanks all. Good info, especially the etymology. :)

Jim Watts wrote:
What do you guys do with a 12" jointer? Just curious.


Flatten 9" stock for resaw. A 10" would work but a 12" minimum planer would be nice.

I should get a chance to go put my hands on the Grizzly on Monday and the table adjustment is definitely on the list of things to look closely at.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Got it, thanks
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Other things a wide jointer is nice for is to be able to skew a wide board diagonally across the knives if the grain is wild or to be able to keep working when one side of the knives gets a chip.

You can also re-enact great WWII South Pacific Naval air battles in your spare time if you have a really big one. laughing6-hehe
Author:  ChuckB [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Kent, let us know what you think about the Grizzly table adjustment.

Thanks, Chuck
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
Well, after kicking the tires on the Grizzly, I'm skeptical. The adjustments to get the tables co-planer are simple (and separate for planer and jointer). You shim the hinged side of the table and there are locking bolts that the other side rests on when the tables are locked down for jointing. It's unclear how well it would stay adjusted. I assume the shimmed side would be fine and at least the other side is easy to change.

The fence is not very rigid. Part of the reason is that you remove it to use the planer so it's made of aluminum for weight. It slides out of a small dovetail block and you lock it in place with large set screws. The block is very sloppy and it's unclear if the set screws will lock it in the same position every time. The fence is more rigid vertically than horizontally and vertical is really the only axis I need to worry about.

Another downside is that the table height adjustments are inconvenient. Worst of all, you need a wrench to adjust the outfeed table.

Switching over is pretty quick but you need a spot to put the fence. And the planer table has to be at least a few inches down in order to use the jointer so going back and forth is a bit more of a pain if your stock is thinner than that.

All in all, the apparent quality is middle of the road Grizzly and not up to par with their higher end stuff. I'm sure I could get it to work but it may be more of a pain than it's worth.

Wish I could get my hands on a Jet.
Author:  Greenman [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer/Planer Combos?
:mrgreen: I got word on the Inca forum that there is a 550 inca for sale on the West coast for $600 and a like new Inca 570 for $900 in Mass. If you or anone else is interest shot me a message and I will email you the info. I have no financial interest in this I just think they are great machines and as I stated are a good choice for a luthier. Compact, moveable. and precise. Best- Greenman
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