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Atlas Cedar for guitar top
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29784		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ricklowrey [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Hi ! I'm new to this forum. I have an Atlas Cedar in my front yard. At least a 100 feet tall. It lost a limb that is 9" in diameter. The wood is very good. My question is if it could be used for a guitar top. Any information would be appreciated. It would be neat to have a guitar built with wood from my own tree. I now have a couple of guitars that are built by Amezcua, in Paracho Mexico. They are hybrids, with classical strings on E,A, & D and steel strings on G,B, and E. Rodrigo Amezcua is an incredible craftsman and reinforced the cedar top to account for the steel strings. the guitars have a wonderful warm tone and a very strong voice. I usually see Amezcua a couple of times a year, so I could take the wood to him to work with. Thanks for any input.

Rick
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
I think Atlas is Lebanese Cedar. If so a wonderful wood although I have no idea how it would work as a guitar top wood. My guess would be ok.
However I would not use wood from a branch or limb for anything where I cared about wood stability. To much potential for "reaction wood." Plus 9" dia. is pretty small. You would be lucky to yield some 4" wide boards and only a couple of those with subsequent boards getting narrower. Lots of joints etc. for the top. It could be done but it would be better to use your wood for decorative elements and such if you want some of "your" wood in a guitar.
To get a handle on this I would suggest reading up on what are the most desirable traits of good top woods and how they are used in a guitar and why they are chosen for guitar building.
This will go a long way to answering your questions.
If that Cedar ever falls down give me a call. :lol: :twisted: It is wonderful wood. A favorite of old time cabinet makers.
Link
Author:  ricklowrey [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Link,

Thanks for the infomation. The cedar used for my guitars is Canadian Red Cedar and has very tight grain. The Atlas Cedar from my yard is not as tight, so probably would not send out as good a tone. Great idea using it as some decorative elements for the guitar, or something for the house. Hope the tree never falls, as it is an amazing tree and highlights the front yard. It is probalbly 5 feet diameter at the base and very open with it's limbs all the way to the top. Really beautiful.

Again, thanks for the information.

rick
Author:  truckjohn [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Overall, it sounds like a fun project. Personally, I have been looking for a large Atlas/Deodar/Lebanon cedar butt log section to salvage for guitar wood.....

I would save some of the straight grained sections out past the limb crotch....

Definitely cut a good straight section 3' - 4' long and wax the ends to prevent cracking during drying, or split the wood into quarters and stack it up.... It needs to split good and straight... no curling or twisting when it splits.

You could even quarter it, then resaw into slats about 3/16" thick, stack and sticker it for long term drying.

Drying wise -- it will take a couple years before the wood is ready to use. Plan accordingly.

The density of that wood is generally quoted pretty close to Mahogany -- so it can be used in a similar way.... It's very fragrant and wonderful smelling.

I am thinking the wood you have would make a fine small body instrument -- like a 1 size (12" lower bout, 4" deep) or something along those lines.... You could certainly use it for back and sides -- make a 4 piece back and standard sides....

You could also use it for a 4 or 6 pc top or back on a "Standard" size instrument....

Thanks

John
Author:  ricklowrey [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
John, Thanks for the input.

The biggest log is about 48" long, very straight and close to 9" at each end. I was thinking that it would be good to cut it into slabs and stack to dry. I have heard that it is best to cut the bark off to keep the bugs from wanting to have a feast. I know zero about how to cut or prepare, but think I can find someone here in Northern California that would have the knowhow. The wood is very dense and grain is fairly close, but not as close as my present guitars. Using it for back and sides might make some sense. Thanks again,

Rick
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
9" diameter might also be big enough to get 4" violin bookmatch wedges :) I wonder if it would be better for the top or back/sides though?
Author:  ricklowrey [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Hi Dinnis,

Not sure if you are thinking that the wood would be better for top, or back/sides ? Thanks for the input,

Rick
Author:  truckjohn [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Unfortunately, slab-sawing it will give you a bunch of flat sawn wood.... Fine maybe for other wood projects, but not usually preferred for Guitars....

You could flat saw it -- cutting a 1 1/2" thick slab carefully out that includes the center, then rip it down the middle so it doesn't split on the pith.....

Attachment:
Guitar tree.JPG


Save the rest of the boards for wood projects of one sort or another or give them to a woodworker friend -- that 1 center cut board will give you all the wood you need for a guitar.

9" diameter is small enough to cut easily with a 14" or 16" band saw rather than requiring special milling saws....

Check your local wood working clubs -- likely you could get one of the fellows in the club to saw it on their big bandsaw for a nominal fee...

Thanks

John
Author:  ricklowrey [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
John,

Thanks for the picture and information. This really helps. Great idea on contacting a wood working club for someone who might help out for a small fee. From your notes, I understand that I should cut the 1 1/2 inch slab out of the center and then cut that piece down the center so I end up with two pieces 1 1/2 inches thick, mirror images of each other. Please let me know if that is correct. I may end up being able to use the wood for a top to a parlor size guitar. That would be super. Thanks again, Rick
Author:  alan stassforth [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
George Harrison wrote a song called "Take Care Beware",
that mentions Atlas Cedars.
Only time I ever heard of that cedar.
Does that help?
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
True cedar, closely related to cedar of Lebanon, sometimes called Atlantic cedar.

A 9" branch is very unlikely to yield wood usable for guitars. The branch wood is reaction wood which is not stable. You probably can see that the pith is well off-center.
Author:  ricklowrey [ Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Howard,

Thanks for the e-mail. The pith in the log I have is not to much off center and the grain rings are fairly uniform, with the 4 foot piece being very straight. Maybe I could bring it over to your shop and get your opinion on it's possible use for a guitar. It probably does not make much sense, but having the tree in my front yard and watching it grow for the past 30 years has been pretty neat. It is a spectacular tree. (see below) I will give you a call and hope that we can meet. I'm only 30 minutes away here in Fairfax.

Thanks, Rick

Attachment:
DSCF0051 (2).JPG
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
That is a pretty tree. In any case I hope you will not get the "great" of idea of cutting it completely.
Author:  ricklowrey [ Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Alex,

No way. It's a beauty and like part of the family.

Thanks, Rick
Author:  cphanna [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Remember, too, that each 9" piece has pith running down the center, ala John's diagram. Your guitar wood should be sawn from an area between the pith and the outer perimeter. Thus, you will not have two 9" pieces to build your top. You will have four 4 or 4.5" pieces. It can be done, but you will need to decide whether a four piece top is acceptable to you. Nothing inherently wrong with a four piece top. LOTS wrong with pith in your top (at least, in my opinion).
Author:  ricklowrey [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
CP,

Thanks for the input. I'm going to age the wood and then see if it will be worth using for a guitar. Either top or back and sides. It will be fun to see how the wood looks and sounds once dry. 2 to 3 years away.

Thanks, rick
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
It might make good dulcimer soundboards. Guitars are not the only things worth building [:Y:]
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
I think a four piece top would be just fine. Would be cool to try and build the whole thing from wood harvested from your yard, IMO who cares if it's not quite suitable for guitars, a cool project none the less.
Author:  ricklowrey [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Atlas Cedar for guitar top
Thanks to all who have given information about my "maybe wood project" with my cedar wood from my yard. The wood looks pretty solid and really smells great. I will post history as I move on with this project. Who knows, maybe a guitar!

Thanks, Rick
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