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Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
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Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
OK, I'm really excitted about finally getting a buffer set up. Here it is.

1" dia shaft, 36" long, 1/4HP 1725 RMP motor, stepped down to 750 RPM with my home made pully :D . Total cost was $140 including the buffs and the Menzerna componds from Shane at highmountain.

I should mention that my buffer is going to be wall mounted with the motor hanging down and the pully out of the way. This is upside down just to set it up.

Image

Here it is running. It's very smooth. I'm looking forward to getting to use it soon.

Image

Here's my question. What do you do when buffing necks with frets already installed? Of course I don't want the fret material to imbed into the fretboard so what do I do to finish the fretboard?

Thanks to all who have posted pictures of their buffers in the past. I've spent a lot of time in the archives to get this thing done.

Cheers.
Author:  Haans [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Rod, I tape off the fretboard (I put frets in after the instrument is together, but buffing is the same whether you fret first or not), finish, buff. I let the finish overlap the fretboard about 1/32", then clean up the edges after it's buffed.
Author:  NWflyonly [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Rod, where'd you pick up the shaft/bearings? Seems like an optimal size and yet my question seems...a little off.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Looks good...and thrifty too, Rod! I'd cover that pulley and belt and pad as much as possible so you don't have damage from inadvertent bumps.
Author:  woodbutcher50 [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Rod,

Yours is pretty similar to what I came up with a while back, except I got carried away with a 54" shaft length for clearance to the pillow blocks. Ended up with a little shaft wobble but it is tolerable.

Attachment:
IMG_2245 LF.JPG


One thing that I have found is that the speed is a little slow. I am running at about 735 RPM shaft speed with 14" dia. buffing wheels. Now that I have gotten used to it, I'm thinking of bumping the speed up to somewhere around 850-900.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
It may not be an issue on a 750 rpm buffer but on all the buffers I've used the threads on the left side are opposite threads....which will work to tighten a loose buffing wheel assembly as buffing pressure is applied. This is a safety thing that won't be an issue....if the nut never comes loose.

In this case I'd want to see two nuts on the left side....one acting as a locknut.

Also...I believe there are set screws on the inside collars of the pillow blocks to hold postion on the shaft. I don't see a flat on the shaft so there is some concern that the set screws will be able to hold the shaft in a vibration environment. Usually, when vibration is present, a shaft with a flat would be the first choice. The thing to do here is mark the shaft on each side of the pillow block with a Sharpie and get used to looking for any sign of movement. Chances are this is going to be fine but the way that's designed....it's going to get ugly if that shaft doesn't stay put.
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
NWflyonly wrote:
Rod, where'd you pick up the shaft/bearings? Seems like an optimal size and yet my question seems...a little off.


Hey Mark, well I use to work in a machine shop so I have connections ;) The shaft cost me the eventual buffing of a friends guitar (which I help him make). The bearings I got at a local bearing supply company (these seem to be in most mid size cities in Canada, but for you guys in the US it seems more difficult to obtain idunno ). The bearings totaled $22.62

JJ Donohue wrote:
Looks good...and thrifty too, Rod! I'd cover that pulley and belt and pad as much as possible so you don't have damage from inadvertent bumps.


Ya, when I flip this thing over and mount it to the wall, the pulley and belt will be out of the way, none the less, I'm going to put some sort of covering on it as well as padding the base, shafts and anything else that may be a possible ding waiting to happen.

woodbutcher50 wrote:
Rod,

Yours is pretty similar to what I came up with a while back, except I got carried away with a 54" shaft length for clearance to the pillow blocks. Ended up with a little shaft wobble but it is tolerable.

One thing that I have found is that the speed is a little slow. I am running at about 735 RPM shaft speed with 14" dia. buffing wheels. Now that I have gotten used to it, I'm thinking of bumping the speed up to somewhere around 850-900.


Ya, I was also thinking of going to a longer shaft but I don't have the room (don't really have the room for this either :OL). With yours, you could have put the bearings closer together to make the same room. I just copied the Stew Mac specs to make mine.

Image

Bearing spacing was based off the stew mac specs.

Also, my buffs are 12" so my surface speed at 750 rpm will be lower than yours at with 14" buffs.

Zlurgh wrote:
It may not be an issue on a 750 rpm buffer but on all the buffers I've used the threads on the left side are opposite threads....which will work to tighten a loose buffing wheel assembly as buffing pressure is applied. This is a safety thing that won't be an issue....if the nut never comes loose.

In this case I'd want to see two nuts on the left side....one acting as a locknut.

Also...I believe there are set screws on the inside collars of the pillow blocks to hold postion on the shaft. I don't see a flat on the shaft so there is some concern that the set screws will be able to hold the shaft in a vibration environment. Usually, when vibration is present, a shaft with a flat would be the first choice. The thing to do here is mark the shaft on each side of the pillow block with a Sharpie and get used to looking for any sign of movement. Chances are this is going to be fine but the way that's designed....it's going to get ugly if that shaft doesn't stay put.


I think I'll add a second jam nut on the inside of the buffs to lock the inside nuts in place. The outside nuts are nylon lock nuts which would take a lot to get off.

As for the flats, I ground flat spots for all set screws on the bearings and the pully.

Haans, I'm not totally following, but I think it best to start a new thread on my fretboard buffing question. I'll quote you in the new thread.

Thanks ya'll
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Haans wrote:
Rod, I tape off the fretboard (I put frets in after the instrument is together, but buffing is the same whether you fret first or not), finish, buff. I let the finish overlap the fretboard about 1/32", then clean up the edges after it's buffed.


I just realized I asked my question wrong, you answered my question as asked thanks Haans :)

I ment to ask about the fretboard with frets installed.... Again, I'll post a new thread with the question.
Author:  Darryl Young [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
I like it Rod! I'm wanting to build a buffer myself so this is timely for me.

I like how you used nuts inside the wheels......cheaper than trying to machine a step in the shaft. An extra jam nut on the inside against the existing nut would be ideal and easy as you mentioned.

Did you machine the shaft to fit the pillow block bearings? Where you machined the flats on the shaft for the set keys, does it make the shaft unbalanced at all (or is the RPM not high enough to matter)?

Which Mazerna buffing compounds did you go with? Any particular reason you went with 12" wheels over the 14"? Curious since I need to make a decision on wheel size.

Overall, I'm debating if it's better to build this style or buy the Shop Fox. Seems the longer shaft in this design would give a little more clearance around the buffing wheel.
Author:  Darryl Young [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Just did a search and found these 1", cast iron pillow block ball bearings at Surplus Center for $8.95 each. Any reason this bearing wouldn't work?

Image
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Hey Darryl, see answers in Red

Darryl Young wrote:
I like it Rod! I'm wanting to build a buffer myself so this is timely for me.

I like how you used nuts inside the wheels......cheaper than trying to machine a step in the shaft. An extra jam nut on the inside against the existing nut would be ideal and easy as you mentioned.

Did you machine the shaft to fit the pillow block bearings? No, I did have to sand the inside of the bearings slightly to fit the shaft. I used my spindle sander to do it. Where you machined the flats on the shaft for the set keys, does it make the shaft unbalanced at all (or is the RPM not high enough to matter)? The flat on the shaft only needs to be 1/16" deep, I just used a file to do it. It's not enough material removal to unbalance the shaft, besides this is the support location of the shaft not hanging out at the end.

Which Mazerna buffing compounds did you go with? I went with #16 & #18 which is what seems like most others use. I'm only going off what I've read here in the archives. I got the Menzerna from Shane at High Mountain Tonewood. Any particular reason you went with 12" wheels over the 14"? Curious since I need to make a decision on wheel size. Both LMI & Stew Mac sell the 12" buffs, most guys seem to use 12" buffs so I really didn't see any need to go to 14" buffs idunno

Overall, I'm debating if it's better to build this style or buy the Shop Fox. Seems the longer shaft in this design would give a little more clearance around the buffing wheel. If you can get the shaft machined relativly inexpensivly, it's much more economical to make it yourself (IMO) but then, I always think it's better to make stuff myself if I can make it to the same level of quality and/or utility as a commercially sold item.


Darryl Young wrote:
Just did a search and found these 1", cast iron pillow block ball bearings at Surplus Center for $8.95 each. Any reason this bearing wouldn't work?

Image


Those are the same bearings that I have.
Author:  woodbutcher50 [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Yeah Rod,

You got off easy on the machining of the axle. That's where I got shafted by a machine shop. Pun intended. I did have them do left handed threads, though.

Mark
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
woodbutcher50 wrote:
Yeah Rod,

You got off easy on the machining of the axle. That's where I got shafted by a machine shop. Pun intended. I did have them do left handed threads, though.

Mark


Ya, I know I'm lucky with my machine shop connections :D I use to design machinery so this stuff also comes easy to me...

Mark, where are you located in Washington? I'm just on the WA/BC border.
Author:  Darryl Young [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Thanks Rod! I'll check on a 1" shaft and how much it would be to get it threaded.

Looks like there are good deals on e-bay on bearings. usabearingsbelts is a top rated seller and has these 1" pillow block bearings for $7.45 each:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-UCP205-16-PREMIUM-Pillow-Block-Bearing-NEW-/370449828876?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564087cc0c

Or he has this set of 2 pillow block bearings for $24.29 and it includes shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-1-Pillow-Block-Bearings-UCP205-16-Qty-2-/390173665208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad829a7b8

Image
Author:  woodbutcher50 [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
About 5 miles East of Exit 200 on I-5.

BTW, my apologies for hijacking your thread. Just intended to share the speed thing with you.

Mark
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Darryl Young wrote:
Thanks Rod! I'll check on a 1" shaft and how much it would be to get it threaded.

Looks like there are good deals on e-bay on bearings. usabearingsbelts is a top rated seller and has these 1" pillow block bearings for $7.45 each:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-UCP205-16-PREMIUM-Pillow-Block-Bearing-NEW-/370449828876?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564087cc0c

Or he has this set of 2 pillow block bearings for $24.29 and it includes shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-1-Pillow-Block-Bearings-UCP205-16-Qty-2-/390173665208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad829a7b8

Image


Make sure you bring the bearings with you to the machine shop. That way they can ensure they fit on the shaft. Not all bearings are created equally and as they say, you get what you pay for. Tollerances on the cheaper bearings won't be as tight as on a SKF bearing or something of higher quality.

If you want, I can sketch out the shaft with the locations of the flats for the bearings and the pully (where I placed mine anyway). Or just take the picture of mine along with the Stew Mac specs to them. They will know what you want to do. If getting a machine shop to thread the ends for you, might as well get the left hand thread and right hand thread done. Just make sure you install the shaft the right way for the spin to tighten the nuts and not loosen them ;) or just go with nylon lock nuts and both right hand threads (normal).
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Got the buffer all set up on the wall and did some practice buffing on my first guitar hanging in the shop. Actually, buffing is pretty simple really and the low speed of the buffer is nice. I purposefully put an edge into the buff to see how hard it would grab the guitar, but it was actually quite managable at this speed. The finish never got hot, but wow it did a good job of bringing up the shine.

So glad so many others have asked about setting up a buffer and how even more folks have answered. Tons of great posts in the archives to go off.

Here's the buffer set up and mounted to the shop wall. Very stable and really quiet. This might turn out to be my most favorite part of building :D

Image
Author:  Pete Brown [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Rod True wrote:
This might turn out to be my most favorite part of building :D

Rod, I'm not sure I'd go as far as that, but having recently dug deep and gone down this path myself, it's no longer something I dread. Previously, buffing by hand, it was a part of the process I strongly disliked, mostly I guess because the results never matched my expectations no matter how much time and effort I put into it. Good move!
Author:  Darryl Young [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Looks great Rod!

My brother is a machinist and he is trying to round a shaft and bearings up for me.....on the cheap. We'll see how that goes.

I like how you mounted the buffer. I was thinking of something similar but had planned for the unit to rotate down and hang from the wall when not in use. Looking at your, it might be more useful to leave it up and make use of the "shelf" as you did. Will need to think about which version I like more.
Author:  Pete Brown [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
Darryl Young wrote:
I like how you mounted the buffer. I was thinking of something similar but had planned for the unit to rotate down and hang from the wall when not in use. Looking at your, it might be more useful to leave it up and make use of the "shelf" as you did. Will need to think about which version I like more.

Darryl, while I like what Rod has done, I don't have a lot of room so mounted my buffer assembly and motor on a solid piece of wood which can be securely clamped the the corner of my workbench. When not in use - which is most of the time - it can then either be hung on a wall somewhere or stowed away out of sight and harm's way.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
For those without access to machine shops, go-kart stores sell 36" shafts (axles) and I believe one side is reverse threaded. They do tend to have key slots in them.

Mike
Author:  Rod True [ Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Just set up my buffer, a couple of questions
I have a very small shop at 185 sft in size (I know Waddy's shop is smaller, but they say sized doesn't matter :D ) and I really had a hard time deciding to go with a full size buffer like this.

I set it up right where my spray booth is normally located. I took the spray booth doors off and stored them in my crawlspace. This gave me the space to set up the buffer.

The buffer is mounted to two 2x4's drilled into studs. The 2x4's will remain when I'm done with the buffer, but the buffer will come down and be stored in my loft area. Only need to remove 7 screws and it's off the wall and I can put the spray booth doors back (when it comes time to spraying). With only making 4 guitars a year, I don't mind having to store a few things out of the way for other things to get done.

We'll see how tonight goes with the buffing :D
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