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Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29762		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
I have an opportunity to pick up about 300 board feet of this at a ridiculous price. It's all in very good condition with straight grain and few blemishes. Bunch of 12'-16' length...2"x6" and 2"x8" boards.

I took a piece home and played with it to discover it is amazingly hard and dense. I'll be making only electrics and it sure gives me a good feeling when handling it but when researching...it seems to be a fairly common building wood. A lot of it comes from sustainable forests...not too expensive...good but...

...I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on its characteristics as primarily a neck wood and maybe a tonewood. I can't find anything on it...which may imply its usefullness when making instruments.
Author:  Kevin Waldron [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Stuart,

My two cents....

We have actually made several acoustic guitars with this material ( back and sides) ....... Not bad on the sound side ....... it was a bear to bend the sides...... suspect the density has a lot to do with this. Very open pore when it comes time to finish ( also noticed it had some characteristics like teak , with oil etc.). We also had a hard time keeping the dust out of the pores before filling. If you wanted a very hard, heavy, dense neck, probably ok if you use a UV finish or something similiar in hardness etc. or some kind of acrylic/epoxy pore-on style finish (seemed to have extremely small splinters that would get you). Not at my machine with wood database but I would say that it is only slightly lighter than teak in density. Probably need a carbide tooth band saw blade to resaw (that's all we use). Price per ft in our area is $2.5-$6 range. Hope this helps.

Kevin
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Thanks Kevin,

Reading more on it I find the sap gives it the dense quality and stability...and also protects it from bugs and decay. I can tell by the general rigidity that it'll be great from the standpoint of mechanical properties. It's like rock.

It took Tru-oil and Z-poxy nicely. Sealing it with epoxy, one could spray anything over it I guess.

Hmmmm....I'm wondering how wrong I could go here.

Tonewise....might I be facing an overly edgy tone if the neckwood was stiff like marble? If so....could that be attentuated by laminating some mahogany along side of it? A .75" center stripe of this with mahogany making up the rest?
Author:  Kevin Waldron [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Stuart,

Only other thing that you might look at in lamination would be expansion/contraction figures on a chart showing wood movement ( for sure you would want something close ...... due to Cumaru nature and the properties that make it a good outside wood I would think that movement with mositure is small ). I do have this information but not where I am right now, if you can't find it let me know.

Kevin.
Author:  truckjohn [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
I think the only woods that would be "Bad" choices from a mechanical standpoint are those that are known for cold bending...... I might hesitate to make a neck out of Willow.....

Otherwise, literally every wood has been used successfully.... from Spruce and Pine and Cedar to the hardest Ebony woods....

That said, I did learn something instructive after making an Oak guitar neck.....

Oh, sure, it is a fine guitar neck and all...... Feels and plays fine... Seems plenty stable.....

It was a royal pain in the rear to carve it and pore fill all of those grand canyon size pores..... Mahogany, walnut, and Cherry are literally a walk in the park compared to that stuff.... and you are talking about a wood that runs 2x - 3x harder than Oak.....

I have some Cumaru -- the stuff is amazingly dense and hard..... While I fully believe that it would make a fine neck once you got it carved.... I think carving it would be a job.

Thanks
Author:  Corky Long [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
What about weight? Is it as heavy as it sounds? The other teak I've see was reeeaaally heavy. Building an electric with a really heavy neck might not be so playable.
Author:  John A [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
that's a lot of wood to take a chance on - why not just try to build something with a sample of the same wood ?
Author:  Mike Baker [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
I know teak is used as a fretboard wood, but if it's as hard and dense as you say, I'd definately give it a try as a neck wood. Never know 'til you try it, and I bet it would be fine, aside from possible weight issues. Then again, I've seen people build with rosewood necks, so if you build with the weight in mind you might not have anything to worry about there, either.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Corky Long wrote:
What about weight? Is it as heavy as it sounds?
Oh yeah....heavy and dense....like rock. I'm leaning towards using it as part of a neck laminate though I worry about my nice Lennox resaw blade when cutting this stuff.

Mike Baker wrote:
I know teak is used as a fretboard wood, but if it's as hard and dense as you say, I'd definitely give it a try as a neck wood.
That was my first impression when working it....that it would make good fretboards. Reading up on it, it's known for its wearability though I thought it was also very pretty, very consistent wood.

John A wrote:
that's a lot of wood to take a chance on - why not just try to build something with a sample of the same wood?
Good question. With this source it's an "all or nothing" deal for about 350 board feet. I can't imagine that's less than a five lifetime supply for me. :)
Author:  jonsse [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Quote:
wearability

eh ?
Quote:
is it a good neck wood ?


No, sounds bad to me maybe good for patio furniture :D
For necks think strong and LIGHT, Ya ? Hence Carbon Fibre etc..
Author:  Mike Baker [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Zlurgh wrote:
Corky Long wrote:

That was my first impression when working it....that it would make good fretboards. Reading up on it, it's known for its wearability though I thought it was also very pretty, very consistent wood.

I totally agree. i love the look of it as a fretboard material. If the price was good and I were you, I'd be tempted to buy just for the fact that you could definately use it as a fretboard wood. You'd never have to buy fretboard wood again. You might also be able to resell some of it in the classifieds.
Author:  Kevin Waldron [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Stuart,

If you really want some of this material ...... don't have a problem sending you some to try.
We keep somewhere around 2,000 ft most of the time. Let me know approximate size.

Kevin
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
jonsse wrote:
wearability.....eh?


Yes....differentiating between wearability and wereability... which indicates usefullness when fighting the undead....which would be significant considering how hard it is.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Kevin Waldron wrote:
Stuart,

If you really want some of this material ...... don't have a problem sending you some to try.
We keep somewhere around 2,000 ft most of the time. Let me know approximate size.

Kevin


I have enough of it to make about half a dozen fretboards....but the offer didn't go unoticed. Thank you!
Author:  jonsse [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Indeed, I love the createability of these new words. :)

BUT don't buy loads of teak 'cause its cheap, buy a bit less of mahog, maple or walnut, ya ?
Author:  jpmarsala [ Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brazilian Teak - Cumaru - a good neck wood?
Hi, i am a newbie from brazil and I am here to learn.
I am just replying this topic cause i can found more information about Brazilian woods.
About cumaru
I have this link from database wood bank from brazil.

http://www.ibama.gov.br/lpf/madeira/car ... istica=284

I know that is in Portuguese but using google translator you can get more thecnical information.
Nexts days I will get a report from a university that did a lot of harmonic tests with 100s of Brazilian tonewoods.
I will give to you this report when I get
RegArds
J.P.
*****excuse my poor English *****
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