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| Bending pipe or bending machine? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29708 |
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| Author: | Mustang_jt [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Hi all, I am slowly building up my tool collection to make the jump from electric guitars to acoustic and the next thing on the list is something to bend the sides. I really like the side bending machines, but they are fairly expensive, but then again a nice bending pipe from stew mac is almost half the price of a bending machine from blues creek. (it only costs 100% more to go first class) I know I can build these things to save money, but I have limited time to work in my shop and like to spend the time actually working on a guitar instead of on tools and jigs, so I prefer to buy. I had almost bought an iron for bending binding for my electrics so I still kind of want one for that reason, but bending sides for acoustic seems much easier and quicker on a machine. So, my question is do I need both an iron and a bending machine, or just one or the other. And if just one, which one? If both, which one first? thanks, John |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I actually use both, the Ibex bender like what Stewmac and others sell and a home built Fox style bender with a blanket and slats from Blues Creek. I bent my 1st 3 guitar sides on the hot pipe style bender and still use it for touch ups and bending rosettes and some binding. If I only could have 1 it would be the Fox style bender, but eventually you will find a need for both. Bending by hand helped me understand the bending process a lot better and I am glad I started with it. Fred |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I know I definately need both. I probably use the iron more than the bending machine, for touch ups, backstrap veneers, bindings, mando sides, experimental models, cutaways... So, I would recommend you get an iron first, and start with some cooperative wood, like EIR, to learn the ropes so to speak. Build a machine later, don't let the need for elaborate jigs, tools and whatnot keep you from building guitars. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Hupaand [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I like the pipe for a reason completely unrelated to luthierie: it feels more like I'm fooling mother nature than any other process. Everything else is just a piece of wood as it grew, I just cut something off of it. Hugh |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Well umm my bender cost $10. its a BBQ starter shoved into a tailpipe. Simple eh. Some dudes got the $...had a Stew Mack Attack and bought at least one of everything in the catalog. Do you need a bending machine to build a guitar...NO! You don't. Are they nice to own...well ya, I guess...sorta like an oliephant...nice to look at , but me woulden't wanna own one. Ya, is true, me liked getting bent out a shape using pot...thats right, me bent for years and years using an old stove pot and a propane torch. Me has bent over old black stove pipe. Me bent over hot coals, Me has even bent backwards on occasion... but then me just bent anyways...so the thing here is....hand bending using heat is a skill to be mastered...but not a difficult one. Is rather easy to master, deeply rewarding inwardly and cheap like borscht. Besides, its been a luthiers tradition for centuries. So how you bend is really a personal choice , " if it gets the pig clean ~ use it. " blessings  Padma
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| Author: | Mustang_jt [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I hadn't seen the BBQ starter bending pipes until now. That might be a good option and save money for the machine. I am not really interested in using propane. I am heading to lowes in a bit and might check into the bbq starter. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I use both also, my bending pipe is just an aluminum tube with a vented cap at the end and a propane torch. |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
the Padma wrote: Are they nice to own...well ya, I guess...sorta like an oliephant...nice to look at , but me woulden't wanna own one. And the storage problem is similar! If you build a bunch of different shaped guitars, the bending machine parts can pile up. Using a press screw bending machine without having some 'hand bending' experience (either an iron or just hand bending with a blanket) is a recipe for breaking sides - the 'feel' is removed from the process. I've bent sides and binding a number of ways, and I've gotten rid of my Fox-style machines. Cheers John |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I use both. My pipe is just a chunk of pipe with a blowtorch. When I finally got a blanket bender from Blues Creek after doing forty or so guitars with other methods it was nothing short of a revalation. If you plan on building for a long time just bite the bullet and buy/build a blanket bender and save countless hours of production time. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
At my pace of building 5 or so a year I still haven't felt the need to build/invest in a bending jig. If I was doing 10+ then maybe I would but then again maybe not. It doesn't take that long to bend sides by hand. I have a propane torch setup that I used for a while and an electric setup (I think it is worth it to purchase the little extension for the end, I use that smaller radius a lot). The propane setup is easier to use for me, it heats up faster. It is more bulky also, though, and feels more dangerous. You do know when it is on though. I worry sometimes about leaving the electric iron on. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Quote: Ya, is true, me liked getting bent out a shape using pot...thats right, me bent for years and years using an old stove pot and a propane torch. Me has bent over old black stove pipe. Me bent over hot coals, Me has even bent backwards on occasion... but then me just bent anyways...so the thing here is....hand bending using heat is a skill to be mastered...but not a difficult one. Is rather easy to master, deeply rewarding inwardly and cheap like borscht. Besides, its been a luthiers tradition for centuries. Me kinda like that kinda bent to !  I have used pipe and blowtorch successfully , I have had a friend here bend several on a bender and I was successfull there to !
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| Author: | walnut47 [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I've used a pipe and machine (someone else's). The pipe is more fun. I guess if I was building a bunch of guitars of the same shape, I might want the machine, but I'm not and I don't. |
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| Author: | Quine [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I started out using a bending machine but I've converted to pipe bending. The pipe is so much easier than I thought that I'm still kicking myself over the time and money I spent on bending forms and a heat blanket. For one-off builds a pipe makes more sense. If you plan to make many copies then a bending machine might be better. Just a pipe with a charcoal starter, propane torch, or heat gun is all you need. Very cheap and easy and versitile |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
the Padma wrote: Ya, is true, me liked getting bent out a shape using pot... Somehow that doesn't surprise me  I am using the same 4in copper pipe that I got for free in 1992 with a blow torch in the back. I am actually not very good at bending sides but it's one of my favorite things to do building guitars. |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Burton LeGeyt wrote: At my pace of building 5 or so a year I still haven't felt the need to build/invest in a bending jig. If I was doing 10+ then maybe I would but then again maybe not. It doesn't take that long to bend sides by hand. I have a propane torch setup that I used for a while and an electric setup (I think it is worth it to purchase the little extension for the end, I use that smaller radius a lot). The propane setup is easier to use for me, it heats up faster. It is more bulky also, though, and feels more dangerous. You do know when it is on though. I worry sometimes about leaving the electric iron on. I'm with you Burton although I use light bulbs and a dimmer to heat my large and cutaway pipes. |
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| Author: | Mustang_jt [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Darrel Friesen wrote: Burton LeGeyt wrote: At my pace of building 5 or so a year I still haven't felt the need to build/invest in a bending jig. If I was doing 10+ then maybe I would but then again maybe not. It doesn't take that long to bend sides by hand. I have a propane torch setup that I used for a while and an electric setup (I think it is worth it to purchase the little extension for the end, I use that smaller radius a lot). The propane setup is easier to use for me, it heats up faster. It is more bulky also, though, and feels more dangerous. You do know when it is on though. I worry sometimes about leaving the electric iron on. I'm with you Burton although I use light bulbs and a dimmer to heat my large and cutaway pipes. how do you build one with a light bulb? Do they take some time to heat up and do they stay hot well? |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Mustang_jt wrote: Darrel Friesen wrote: Burton LeGeyt wrote: At my pace of building 5 or so a year I still haven't felt the need to build/invest in a bending jig. If I was doing 10+ then maybe I would but then again maybe not. It doesn't take that long to bend sides by hand. I have a propane torch setup that I used for a while and an electric setup (I think it is worth it to purchase the little extension for the end, I use that smaller radius a lot). The propane setup is easier to use for me, it heats up faster. It is more bulky also, though, and feels more dangerous. You do know when it is on though. I worry sometimes about leaving the electric iron on. I'm with you Burton although I use light bulbs and a dimmer to heat my large and cutaway pipes. how do you build one with a light bulb? Do they take some time to heat up and do they stay hot well? I use a 300 watt incandescent in my large pipe (4" pipe bent into a teardrop shape) and a 300 watt halogen in a piece of 1 1/2" pipe for cut aways and smaller stuff. A regular 600 watt dimmer is used with both and maintains the temperature very well. Takes about 10 minutes to heat up. Having said that, I've never tried a Fox bender and may become a convert although bending seems to be one of the more pleasing and simpler parts of building a guitar, even with a pipe. I've only built 8 guitars so take it for what it's worth. |
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| Author: | Mustang_jt [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Darrel Friesen wrote: I use a 300 watt incandescent in my large pipe (4" pipe bent into a teardrop shape) and a 300 watt halogen in a piece of 1 1/2" pipe for cut aways and smaller stuff. A regular 600 watt dimmer is used with both and maintains the temperature very well. Takes about 10 minutes to heat up. Having said that, I've never tried a Fox bender and may become a convert although bending seems to be one of the more pleasing and simpler parts of building a guitar, even with a pipe. I've only built 8 guitars so take it for what it's worth. Thanks, I think I might try that instead of the charcoal lighter, if it only takes 10 mins to heat up I can handle that, seems a little less rigged to me as well. |
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| Author: | John A [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
just make sure you don't drip water in the socket - the BBQ start worries me less as it is not a fragile as a bulb, and it tolerates getting wet (the element at least). A bulb would explode if cold water were dripped on it. |
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| Author: | Quine [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Here's my hot pipe....pretty sophistimacated eh? There's a 1.5" hole in the board under the pipe flange to let the hot air out I just bent a set of koa sides for a 14fret 0size over the weekend. So satisfying 
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I stuff this 500 watt soldering iron in the pipe, and put a wet terry cloth towel over it, and the temp seems perfect. Before the towel, I used a variac to control da temp. I like not having a lot of big jigs around. |
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| Author: | kenjeffs [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Here is a picture of my home made pipe bender. I is heated by a 200 watt light bulb and temperature is regulated by a dimmers switch and BBQ grill thermometer |
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| Author: | Bailey [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I have the torch in pipe DIY unit and have bent several sides....scorched a couple and broke one. I still haven't figured it out. Some woods bend like butter and others bend with a twist and others don't bend without serious work. Wood prep: Some people say say spritz...some say soak...some a say bend dry. I'm ready to build a DIY light bulb mold bender myself see if that helps my success ratio. Thennnn... maybe progress $$$ to a slat and blanket addition. All bending CAN be done with a pipe....but the learning process for me has been brutal. Kent |
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| Author: | Antonio [ Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
I am actually building my 2nd guitar so the bending pipe is Ok for the moment. it is heated with a 200W halogen bulb .Here are some pictures:  
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| Author: | the Padma [ Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bending pipe or bending machine? |
Ok, there is something to say about benders that ain't been said yet... and this is very important... straight up or over ice is ok but stay away from that sweet sodie pop mix...it will leave you bent out a shape with a headache. Now at a shot an hour, you can go for weeks and weeks, a shot or two and hour...well maybe a week or so. three or more an hour ain't no bender...is just a drunk. thats me take on benders other than get some sort of heat happening on a steel pipe....real simple eh! blessings Padma
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