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Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29481		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LaurieW [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Just wondering what modifications you'd make for nylon string guitar that looks like a standard steel string? I have never seen plans for them, but I like the concept and the look (i.e. Taylor NS series comes to mind). Just wondereing if it would have a classical bracing scheme in a steel string body, or lightly braced acoustic?

Attachment:
NS32ce-1.jpg


Laurie
Author:  Zach Ehley [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
heres the bracing for that guitar

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/fe ... string.gif
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
The NS looks more like a classical-inspired shape to me rather than SS but oh well.

I say you can't go wrong with a OO or 00 shape for fan bracing. 90% or more of classicals fit somewhere in between in terms of LB and length, but they have a wider UB and waist. An OM is too big for nylon I guess, although Al might chime in and recommend a light X bracing for this shape.
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Here was a good thread about a nylon string dreadnought a couple months ago: http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28586

I agree with Alexandru though, fan braced 12-fret 00 ought to sound pretty much like a regular classical while looking more like a steel string.

I am curious to hear an X braced nylon, but I think fan bracing is a better design, stiffening the long dipole enough for structural survival, while loosening the cross dipole as much as possible. Still tempted to try it though, as an X makes a very strong structural support, so you could probably go even thinner on the plate. Not sure whether the larger "active area" of an X would be a good thing or not.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
I am currently setting up to do a FE19 (Torres) and a L-00, so this question is timely-just last week I was laying out the templates one over the other!

They are very similar to each other. The L-00 is the same length, wider in the lower bout and narrower in the upper bout. It would work very well. The only adjustment that I'd make would be to lay out the fan braces such that they get as close to the sides of the lower bout in the L-00 as they are in the FE19.

I would consider doing this if I was already set up for either a L-00 or a OO STST. If starting a nylon string from scratch I just as well go with a regular nylon string body.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Remember that all of Martin's guitars up to the 12-fret 000 were designed for gut strings, and they used X bracing from somewhere in the 1840's I believe.

I've built two 12-fret 000s as classicals, and both worked out well. The first was pretty much what Martin would have made in the early decades of the 20th century in terms of materials: BRW and Red spruce. It had a 'bright' sound, and, I suspect, has played in well, although I have not heard it since I delivered it. The second is my 'Autumn' guitar, BRW and WRC. You can hear me playing it (if you can call it playing) on my web site, and I have a friend doing some tracks on it now that will be better. I showed it to Sharon Isbin a couple of years ago, and she liked it, so it can't be too bad.

If you want to use X bracing for some reason on a 00 size (which is close to a standard classical) keep it really light, and use only one tone bar with single finger braces on either side. A nylon string OM with 14 frets would work well; again, keep the top bracing light.

DO NOT use a pin bridge. If you do somebody will almost certainly try to put steel strings on it, probably heavies, and there goes the top. We actually had an 1844 Panormo come in once with steel strings on it: the guy found it in his grandmother's attic and since it had a pin bridge... Fortunately the bridge saddle area chipped brefore he got them up to tension, which would have ripped the thin one-piece top off.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Alan Carruth wrote:
We actually had an 1844 Panormo come in once with steel strings on it: the guy found it in his grandmother's attic and since it had a pin bridge... Fortunately the bridge saddle area chipped brefore he got them up to tension, which would have ripped the thin one-piece top off.


Alan, are you ever going to post some specs on that guitar? Panormo's are a special interest of mine and good data is rare.
Author:  LaurieW [ Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Thanks for the reposnses - as much as I like the idea (some of the Taylors on the site are auditorium size), I don't think I'll start going down this road just yet :)

Laurie
Author:  hanstrocity [ Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
I have always wanted to build one of these crossover hybrids. I had a chance to play one of these Ian Anderson models and I was immediately enamored. It really did work very well for both types of strings, and is head and shoulders better than the old NY I used to play a few years back. I am too chicken to try to build one yet, but it is definitley something I will get to one day.

http://www.j-tull.com/news/martinguitar.cfm
Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
I love Tull! I was actually named after Mr. Anderson. Unfortunately I have nothing more to contribute. [uncle]
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
douglas ingram asked:
"Alan, are you ever going to post some specs on that guitar?"

I wish I had some to post. This was probably thirty years ago, and I was not keeping much in the way of records even on my own stuff then. It was, as I remember, pretty much like the pics in Evans & Evans. It had BRW sides, and the back was pine inside, faux painted to look like rosewood, with BRW veneer on the outside. It had a one-piece top, and an ebony bridge, and it was _light_. The top had, iirc, three low, flat fans, about 7-8mm wide, that more or less came to a point in the middle below the waist bar. It was a very nice guitar, with a more 'bassy' sound than you'd expect for such a small box. It was probably a sort of 'English bass': no fundamental to speak of, but with all the overtones your ear filled it in.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Alan Carruth wrote:
douglas ingram asked:
"Alan, are you ever going to post some specs on that guitar?"

I wish I had some to post. This was probably thirty years ago, and I was not keeping much in the way of records even on my own stuff then. It was, as I remember, pretty much like the pics in Evans & Evans. It had BRW sides, and the back was pine inside, faux painted to look like rosewood, with BRW veneer on the outside. It had a one-piece top, and an ebony bridge, and it was _light_. The top had, iirc, three low, flat fans, about 7-8mm wide, that more or less came to a point in the middle below the waist bar. It was a very nice guitar, with a more 'bassy' sound than you'd expect for such a small box. It was probably a sort of 'English bass': no fundamental to speak of, but with all the overtones your ear filled it in.


Thanks, Alan.

I didn't realize that it was about 30 years ago! Details tend to become more obscured by the mists of time the further back we go.

I did build a Panormo "copy" finished last year, based upon as much research as I could dig up. I really like it and would like to be able to improve upon it. I would include getting as close as possible to the authentic sound as "improving".
Author:  RaymundH [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nylon stringed guitar - Steel string body
Check out Matt Mustapick's site as he does a nylon crossover with basiaclly the same specs (dimentions) as an OM. Very cool guitars!
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