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Can I brush on lacquer?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29428		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ricardo [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Can I brush on lacquer?
I've run out of warm weather for the outside spray booth and I need more coats on my guitar. Can I thin down the lacquer and apply with a brush?
Author:  Cal Maier [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
Hi Ricardo,

I haven't brushed lacquer but I know you can mix it with a retarder to slow the drying time in order to use a brush. Check with the manufacturer of the brand you are using.

Cal
Author:  runamuck [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
Ricardo wrote:
I've run out of warm weather for the outside spray booth and I need more coats on my guitar. Can I thin down the lacquer and apply with a brush?


Simply thinning it will speed up the dry time because thinner is more volatile than lacquer. You can brush it if you use a lacquer retarder which will slow drying time and give it time to flow out. It's doable, but it's not a great experience.
Author:  woody b [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
What Jim said. Thinning it will cause it to dry quicker, making brush marks an even bigger problem. Adding retarder will work, but it will take a really long time to cure before buffing. It will also be off gassing some stuff that's bad for you while it's curing. Nitro makes me sick. Obviously when I spray one with Nitro I've got my respirator on, but I can't go back into my finishing building (without a respirator) for a week or so. Your best bet would be to find a local automotive painter that will let you use his spray booth. I finished guitars for years in the spray booth at an automotive dealers body shop before I added my spray room. You're welcome to come use my booth, but I'm ~3000 miles away eek
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
I won't go easily or level well. And retarder keeps the lacquer soft for a long time.
Author:  Ricardo [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
I think I'll find a local fellow luthier who has an inside spray booth to finish the job. Thanks All!
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
There are brushing lacquers available. I have a 1l can of it but haven't tried it out yet.

Watco brushing lacquer:
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=48
Author:  bluescreek [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
Brushing lacquers are more for furniture and woodwork than instruments. There is a difference. If this is your first guitar, it may be an acceptable finish but for true quality finishes you need to get the good stuff . I have been using Mowhawk and Behlen finishes for a few years. Shirwinn Williams also makes a fair lacquer.
Macfaddens I hear is back . I also use the vinyl sealers and try to keep all the same from the same company . I have found some compatibility issues mixing too many brands together. Finishing is not just about what you use but the technique that is used. Also it isn't about what you put on , but what you let on. The prep is so important , a bad prep won't get you a great finial finish. Get a good fill , that is as important as anything to get a nice level finish. You need a good build coat , and your level sanding has to be spot on. It is a lot of work and you may spend as much time on finishing as you did building.
Author:  rustedpalm [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
I remember my dad talking about painting cars with lacquer on cold days, and he said he would heat a pan of water and set the quart of lacquer in it to warm up and it would spray and flow beautifully. Not sure what temp he got it to though.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
bluescreek wrote:
Brushing lacquers are more for furniture and woodwork than instruments. There is a difference...It is a lot of work and you may spend as much time on finishing as you did building.


Good to know! I'll leave my can for other projects.

Putting on a good finish IS a lot lot of work. Sometimes I feel like everyone puts more emphasis on the finish than the build. Sometimes I wish that perfect shine wasn't such a concern to so many people.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
I have not had good experiences with brushing lacquer. It looked fine, but required a lot of sanding to get it level as it just doesn't flow well. If you add enough retarder to get it to flow, then it's susceptible to dust, just like varnish. It seemed to cure, eventually, but didn't wear as well as sprayed lacquer or varnish.

Pat
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
If you are going to use a brush there are other finishes that are easier to apply, and much, much less toxic than lacquer. Oil varnish for example.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
To me, the Minwax brushing lacquer smells a lot like the old Sherwin Williams nitrocellulose lacquer. I thin it and spray it, and its seems to work about the same as spray lacquer. When you brush it you are putting on what amounts to several sprayed coats, and it will take longer to dry and harden up. I would not add retarder to brushing lacquer. The Watco brushing lacquer doesn't seem to be as flexible a finish (less plasticizers?).
As other posters have mentioned, you can spray lacquer in near freezing conditions, just be carefull of rapid temperature/ humidity changes.
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
I have sprayed lacquer outside when it was 20 degrees in the northeast. The finish came out great. I would definitely continue doing this as opposed to using a brush.
Author:  Ken Mitchell [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
Laurent Brondel wrote:
If you are going to use a brush there are other finishes that are easier to apply, and much, much less toxic than lacquer. Oil varnish for example.


Laurent, could you (or others) elaborate a bit on this? I've got a group of students who will be building with me soon, and I'm looking into other possibilities for their finishing work (something FASTER and EASIER than lacquer).

TIA,
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
Oil varnish will be the easiest finish to brush, although there is a learning curve. The slow cure guarantees that the finish will flow evenly if properly applied. The little dust particles sand right off. However, it is not fast. Most oil varnishes require 36 hours between coats, for an average 8 coats for a thin finish (.003" -.004"). Only Rockhard allows 2 coats/day, but it requires about 10 coats average.
The fastest finish I know is French polish, if polymerizing oils are added it will be a little harder. But it is no match for oil varnish or even lacquer in terms of hardness. The newly available U-Beaut shellac sounds promising though.
Author:  Ken Mitchell [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I brush on lacquer?
Thanks for the info, Laurent. I think I will just keep using water-based lacquer.
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