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1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29350		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Hi All,

Whenever I finish the 2 guitars I am working on, I plan on making a guitar based on a fantastic 1920's Joseph Nettuno Grand Concert I have (I do not get much time to build, so hopefully this century :-) ). This guitar is superior, IMHO, to the Oscar Schmidt Grand Concerts (I have owned in the past and sold). This guitar is built by one of the New York City Italian Luthiers that are sometimes associated with the non-Oscar Schmidt Galiano guitars. This guitar has a very loud, piano-like sound, and is AWESOME for bottleneck. Anyway, here are the specifics in case anybody is interested (Note: this is the guitar John Hall traces in his Quick-tips video on how to take a body tracing. John has also made a mold and bending form for me for this guitar). I also have a late '20's concert sized Oscar Schmidt Stella guitar that I plan on looking closely at.:

Dimensions:
- Upper Bout: 10 5/8
- Lower Bout: 14 7/8
- Length of Body: 20 3/8
- Waist: 9
- Depth at Neck Block: 3 9/16
- Depth at End Block: 3 13/16
- Depth at Waist: 3 13/16
- Neck Block: 3 3/8 high, 3 wide, .75 thick
- End Block: 3 5/8" high, 3 wide, .75 thick

- Length to Soundhole: 4 1/2
- Soundhole: 3 7/16
- Length to Bottom Soundhole: 7 15/16

Bridge:
- Type: 3-sided Pyramid
- Width: 1
- Length: 7 1/8
- thickness: 2.90 on Bass side ramp down to 2.80 treble

Scale Length: 26 1/8

Materials:
- Top: Red Spruce
- Back & Sides: "Rosewood-ized" Mahogany
- Neck: Mahogany
- Kerfing: Square Mahogany ??
- Bridge & Fingerboard: Not sure, some kind of "ebon-ized" hardwood

Top Thickness: seems to be between .115 - .120 with the finish

Bracing: essentially 7/16 wide bracing, varying form .550 to .590 tall. Shape is odd as the back-side is fairly straight up, then slants down to about 1/8", then straight (drawing in photos). Rear ladder brace is rectangular.
Bridge Plate: 1 5/8" wide, grain running sideways. Plate runs full length of body and tapers in last 1/4" to kerfing. Appears to be ~ .125 thick, with a 1/16" maple patch for the ball ends.
"Popsicle brace": it appears that this guitar has a sort of popsicle brace on top, about 1/2" wide running to about 1.5" short of the sides (end tapers). grain runs sideways.

Following is a low res picture of a drawing I made. For this, I modified for a 25.4 " scale, so the bridge plate has been moved up a bit. I need to double check the location of the bottom ladder brace as it seems it should be a little lower on the bout.:
Attachment:
P1080150.JPG

A couple of general pics, 1 with purfling close-up:
Attachment:
P1080155.jpg

Attachment:
P1080153.jpg
Author:  jackwilliams [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
That's a great looking guitar; Looks something like Haans Bentrup might have built...
As funds permit, I may have ole John make me a mold ...
regards,
jack
Author:  Joe Sustaire [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Can't wait to see this one come about Glenn! I hope you do a build thread on it or at least some construction pics so we can see the details. Hard to see the details in your drawing pic, just three ladders plus the bridge plate and popsicle brace? How about some clarification on the brace shape, can't see it in the photo?

Yeah, we may have to get Haans to make the purfing for us. :D
And you're just gonna' have to do something about that lack of build time, we'll get impatient! laughing6-hehe

Joe
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Joe Sustaire wrote:
Can't wait to see this one come about Glenn! I hope you do a build thread on it or at least some construction pics so we can see the details. Hard to see the details in your drawing pic, just three ladders plus the bridge plate and popsicle brace? How about some clarification on the brace shape, can't see it in the photo?

Yeah, we may have to get Haans to make the purfing for us. :D
And you're just gonna' have to do something about that lack of build time, we'll get impatient! laughing6-hehe

Joe

Hi Joe,

Yeah, between Family and a job that requires alot of international travel, it is hard to get time in the shop.

Yes, just 3 ladders, bridge plate and sort-of popsicle brace. I can send anybody the high res photo ( just PM your email), it will be alot easier to read. The braces definitely have a different shape, sort of like this (dont mind the freehand drawing) Note that the beveled part of the brace faces the soundhole. So the brace above and below the soundhole have same shape, but are reversed - hope that makes sense.:
Attachment:
draw-picture.jpg

The braces have a pretty traditional profile of:
Attachment:
draw-picture2.jpg
Author:  Joe Sustaire [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Thanks Glenn, that's funny, like you only carve the side of the brace that someone might see peering thru the soundhole. :D

I'll pm you my email, 'cause I would like a better shot of your drawing. Thanks for posting this with all the detailed measurements. Some of us just like these old ones.

Joe
Author:  Haans [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Wow!...
Glenn, any potato chip in the top? I sure would be tempted to keep the top at .120, and think about something in between the bridge patch and middle transverse. Or, move the middle TV back and add a smaller brace near the soundhole, and one on each side of the soundhole.
Box dimensions are quite similar to my GC, but mine has a bigger bottom. Looks like a good project and fun purfling to make except for the straight "herringbone". Wish that was commercially available.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Haans wrote:
Wow!...
Glenn, any potato chip in the top? I sure would be tempted to keep the top at .120, and think about something in between the bridge patch and middle transverse. Or, move the middle TV back and add a smaller brace near the soundhole, and one on each side of the soundhole.
Box dimensions are quite similar to my GC, but mine has a bigger bottom. Looks like a good project and fun purfling to make except for the straight "herringbone". Wish that was commercially available.

Hi Haans,

Yeah, the top does have some potato chip in it - but not too bad. I was considering putting in a couple braces by the soundhole. I have no idea what I will do for the purfling, but luckily this is advance planning, so I have plenty of time to think about it :-).

Glenn
Author:  Haans [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Glenn, here's a couple of ideas to think about. I have a bit of potato chip in my parlor, so have been trying a few things.

Image

Image

Image

This last one has the potato chip in the top...
Author:  Haans [ Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1920's Grand Concert "Plans"
Joe Sustaire wrote:

Yeah, we may have to get Haans to make the purfing for us. :D


Joe


Working on that...
We'll see what happens.
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