Can anyone educate me on the actual advantages of hide glue or animal glue? how to make the formula? how to use and what part of the animal to use? Is the same formula with titebond. thank for the answer...
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| Author: | herry tze [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hide Glue Formula |
Can anyone educate me on the actual advantages of hide glue or animal glue? how to make the formula? how to use and what part of the animal to use? Is the same formula with titebond. thank for the answer...
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| Author: | Josh H [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
I would suggest that you do a search for hide glue in the forum archives. There have been many discussions on the pro and cons to all different types of glue and how to use them. Also you can find some info on hide glue at Frank Fords website http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Dat ... eglue.html http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Dat ... chart.html That should get you started. Josh |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
herry tze wrote: how to make the formula? how to use and what part of the animal to use? Herry- You can probably find hide glue locally, rather than making your own 'from scratch'. Contact some 'old-time' furniture makers, or traditional instrument makers. Some folks make glue by boiling rabbit skins. You can also just use a concentrated mixture of gelatin (if it's available there) as hide glue. Having said all that, if I were in Indonesia (hot and humid sometimes?), rather than hide glue I would use PVA glue ('white glue'/'yellow glue') because of PVA's better resistance to moisture and fungus/bacteria. Cheers John |
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| Author: | hugh.evans [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
It's more difficult to prepare and handle than PVA. Bond strength is comparable to PVA, it has superior creep resistance and fantastic grab. Hide glue lacks water resistance, which is a strength when disassembly is considered. Properties can be adjusted by using different gram strengths, which is also related to gram weight. These are the products of a refining process similar to the way fuels and petrochemicals are separated from crude. Higher gram strengths will dry into a stronger, more rigid form. The drawback to this is that higher gram strength also correlates postively with gel point, meaning they are more difficult to handle. Instruments are typically made with between 175 and 275 depending on needs. Some luthiers swear by 192, which I suspect is some remenant from violin makers... if anyone can fill that knowledge in for me I would appreciate it. Information regarding preparation is widely available online, but if you have any questions I'd be happy to help. |
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| Author: | herry tze [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
Thank, Josh, John, hugh.evans... I've remembered for the some 'old-time' furniture makers here, they use glue " some like rather transparent light brown square or some granule" and to prepare we add some water and boil... in Indonesia we call 'KATHAK'. But I interesting to try PVA glue because of easy to find that... thanks...  ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations") herry...
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
herry tze wrote: I've remembered for the some 'old-time' furniture makers here, they use glue " some like rather transparent light brown square or some granule" and to prepare we add some water and boil... in Indonesia we call 'KATHAK'. That's hide glue, for sure. Cover with water, allow to soak, then heat. 
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
herry tze wrote: Thank, Josh, John, hugh.evans... I've remembered for the some 'old-time' furniture makers here, they use glue " some like rather transparent light brown square or some granule" and to prepare we add some water and boil... in Indonesia we call 'KATHAK'. But I interesting to try PVA glue because of easy to find that... thanks... herry...Harry - as John says, that's hide glue, but don't BOIL it. Hide glue loses it's effectiveness if it's heated over 145 degrees fahrenheit for any length of time. You need a good thermometer and a gentle double boiler to heat it. Not complicated, not expensive, but important. Also, it's useful to gently heat the parts being glued. Hide glue has a very short "open" time before it gels. I love using it, but it's not forgiving if you don't get the pieces mated and clamped pretty quickly. And it doesn't fill gaps well. So, it's important to focus on the prep work even more than usual (which I actually find to be a good influence on my habits, anyway) Titbond (or equivalent) is much easier to use. That being said, I still prefer hide glue. |
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| Author: | John Platko [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
I suppose you could do this. http://www.youtube.com/user/bcgrover#p/u/41/vjBT7WOAuLE This guy makes it look easy. John |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
Truth is, hide glue is easier than most other glues. That includes clean up, which is much easier with hide glue. Even dry, you can wash it off with a cloth dampened in hot water. The heating thing is so easy to deal with if you use little bottles and make small quantities, and there is no shelf life on the granules. The only issue I see is open time, and that's only an issue on a few areas. |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
In India, I had somebody give me an older guitar (Washburn, I recall) in a cardboard box, in pieces. It had completely fallen apart under the assault of monsoon weather (weeks of very hot, 95%+RH weather) with very hot and dry (40+ deg C, 10% ? RH) at other times of the year and fungus/bacterial attack. Hide glue might not be the best choice for a tropical climate........ Cheers John |
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| Author: | herry tze [ Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
Thank's alot friend's... Yesterday I bought hide glue from some old store building material, and the shopman don't know the name, so I just told him some glue like granule and mix with water to prepare it and they understood. But the hide glue is not fresh one, full of dust  so I only tried to buy 250grm. (I thing very few people bought it, because of lot modern glue).After I saw it, I remember when I was child I used this glue to mix with glass powders and I soak a roll of yarn and after drying I use this yarn to play a fighting kite (yarn to be harsh but dangerous and this do not followed) And now I need a formulation for mixture with water.. and I try to find from http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Dat ... eglue.html (from Josh H) and buy a termometer too... thank's 
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| Author: | hugh.evans [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
The shelf life is indefinite in a sealed container. I have several 5 gallon pails that date back as far as the 30s in a variety of gram strengths. |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide Glue Formula |
JohnAbercrombie wrote: In India, I had somebody give me an older guitar (Washburn, I recall) in a cardboard box, in pieces. It had completely fallen apart under the assault of monsoon weather (weeks of very hot, 95%+RH weather) with very hot and dry (40+ deg C, 10% ? RH) at other times of the year and fungus/bacterial attack. Hide glue might not be the best choice for a tropical climate........ Cheers John Those very same conditions would play havoc with any instrument. I'm in very tropical Far North Queensland and during the wet season we have temperatures into the very high 30's and in my shed it goes into the mid 40'ls C. Humidity always through the roof. I build almost exclusively with HHG and don't have any issues. I also have to send instruments to much drier parts of the continent and the USA. Not had a single failure or complaint. You will only get fungus growth on exposed glue. Good clean up is essential, as should be with any glue. And then a few thin coats of Shellac to seal the inside of the instrument. Oh, and working with hide glue in these temperatures is a breeze. Lots of open time. No pre-heating of parts required. |
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