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| How necessary is a cyclone? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=29312 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How necessary is a cyclone? |
I'm looking at buying a dust collector. I can get a 2300 CFM regular collector for 500$, or a 1500 CFM cyclone for 1800$. So I can get about 30% more suction for about 30% of the cost. Both claim to remove dust down to 1 micron. So how necessary is the cyclone? Thanks |
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| Author: | Mark Fogleman [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
Here's a pretty good collection of dust collection info I based my Cyclone decision on: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm The problem with non-cyclone style and some poorly designed cyclone collectors is their filters clog quickly and flow decreases making them ineffective. An alternative to a cyclone is a diy Thein Separator. http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm If attention is paid to their construction they can get close to a good cyclone. |
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| Author: | MikeG [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
I think more important than being a cyclone dust collector is that it have pleated filters not the bag filters. I had a Jet 1 HP dust collector with the bags several years ago and it let most of the small stuff pass right through it. I built the cyclone dust collector that was in Wood magazine and I have never noticed any dust coming out of it. That is partly due to the Cyclone and partly because it uses a diesel truck air filter. This dust collector is only 1.5 HP, pretty quiet and I have it piped with 4" PVC pipe to 5 machines with blast gates and it works well. THe URL to this collector is http://www.woodmagazine.com/ideas/wood- ... 3/?page=13. Mike |
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
Is it necessary? No. Is it a huge asset that will not only make your shop more livable but safe guard your health? Yes, definitely. |
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| Author: | npalen [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NAPA-AIR-FILTER-2700-CHEVY-TITAN-GMC-ASTRO-TRUCK-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem43a210910bQQitemZ290481803531QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories Anyone familiar with specs on the truck air filters? Are they fine enough for shop dust filtration? |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
I have a grizzly and I can't say that I am very happy with it. The pleated filter is difficult to clear as the brush inside gets bogged down from the dust and the filter looses efficiently very quickly. It seems the better units separate dust in the cyclone and the filter is more secondary . The filter needs to be replaced at least once a year or more and at $250 , this isn't very economical. I got some info from Philadelphia Industries and they seem to be ok as Clearview I heard is out of business and I am in the market to get a better unit. |
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| Author: | MikeG [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
With my 1.5 HP cyclone from the Wood Magazine plans the longest run with 4" PVC is 28 ft. with 6 - 90 degree turns and has a delta 12" planer on the end of it. When I am planing a board it will sometimes leave a few chips behind but that is very few, I don't see any fine dust coming out of it. Would it be nice to have more power, I would say maybe but my neighbor got a 2 or 2.5 HP unit and the problem with that is that it is very loud. I guess it would depend on how much you are going to use it and how much you want to spend. Mike |
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| Author: | Mark Fogleman [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
Clear Vue is still in business. They were purchased shortly after Ed announced his retirement and it's business as usual. http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/ |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
It's good to know Clear Vue is still a going concern. I see their site offers only three models. It also looks as though there is still a lot of DIY involved with their systems. Not that that worries me, but it seems Oneida systems are a little more complete for about the same money but I may not be reading it right. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
I like the 2hp JDS self contained rolling unit. The specs seem to be identical to a machine sold in Canada as Craftex by a company called busy bee tools. Same machine different paint job. What do you think of the JDS unit? |
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| Author: | crich [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
Of course if you live in the country, as I do , you can just pipe it outside. Can't get safer than that. clinton |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
Dumping the exhaust outside can also very quickly convert your humidity-controlled shop into whatever the humidity is outside. -jd |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
I guess in Australia an anticyclone would work better. |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
meddlingfool wrote: It's good to know Clear Vue is still a going concern. I see their site offers only three models. It also looks as though there is still a lot of DIY involved with their systems. Not that that worries me, but it seems Oneida systems are a little more complete for about the same money but I may not be reading it right. I just did this comparison and came up with a different view. I bought the "combo" 5 HP Clear Vue (1050CFM at 9" static pressure (SP) - see the curve) for $1420 delivered to my home plus I had to buy a $50 drum ($1470 total). The 3 HP Oneida S. Gorilla (900 CFM at 9" SP see the curve WITH filter included) was $1865 delivered and, like the Clear Vue, you have to hang it somewhere on your own (DIY) and put in ducting (DIY). So at the same 9" SP (a more real life data point IMHO) the Clear Vue has 17% more CFM but is 21% cheaper than the Oneida. Said a different way, the Clear Vue is $1.40/CFM while the Oneida is $2.07/CFM. That is a 48% total difference which is not "about the same" to me. If I was interested in passing commercial codes I would spring for the steel Oneida, but the plastic (lighter to handle and less load on the wall) works OK for me. I ran 7" metal duct which allows the bigger airflow of the Clear Vue to actually reach my machines. The 7" is very little more money than the 6" and yields a significant increase in the usable CFM from a 5 HP machine that can actually deliver it. Why more air? FINE DUST collection to reduce health risks. As someone said above, you "can't have too much dust collection". There is no "right" answer to the dust collection system. Each of us, obviously, have to make that decision based on our own specific needs. My health, LONG TERM, is my biggest concern. So my dust collection is the most expensive system in my shop, by far. Only the shop itself is more money. I agree with the intent of the comment above that "you can't have too much dust collection", that is, FINE dust collection. Chip collection is my lower priority, but it is nice having little cleaning to do. I narrowed down to Oneida and Clear Vue. The "comparison" of Oneida and Clear Vue (unnamed) on the Oneida site is not apples-to-apples for CFM. The Clear Vue was tested with the filters connected while the ratings shown for the Oneida in the comparison are without filters. If you take the Oneida curves WITH filter you will see that they are less than what is shown in the comparison without filters installed. I am not trying to sell Clear Vue. There are advantages for the Oneida, but there are advantages for Clear Vue too. It just depends on one's own specific needs. But the 5 HP Clear Vue will suck more air for less money. And the filters are lifetime for small shops. Clear Vue going out of business is a real possibility, but I don't figure I'll need a lot of service down the road. Oneida is a better bet if I thought placed more value on the future service or thought I'd become a commercial shop (I will not.) Good luck. Ed |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
Thanks everyone, It's a tough choice trying to balance space and CFM needs. I'm happy (well, perhaps let's say willing) to spend however much I need, so I'd say the general consensus is that a cyclone is the way to go. I want at least 1100 real life CFM. The problem mostly with machines that can provide that much is that they are mostly too big physically. One that I found attractive size wise was from a company called Craftex. I don't know how to make a link, but if anybody who knows a bit about these things could google Busy Bee Tools Vancouver and look at their cyclones, they have self contained rolling units in 2 and 3 hp that would fit my space nicely. I'm sure the filter isn't good enough but could be upgraded, and that even if they are overrated due to poor test procedures they might be enough. If anyone has a minute that'd be pretty cool. Thanks |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
I've got an Oneida and, like Ed, it's the most expensive tool in my shop. I didn't think I had room either until I just made it a priority and made room. Attachment: DSCF0483.JPG
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How necessary is a cyclone? |
meddlingfool wrote: Thanks everyone, It's a tough choice trying to balance space and CFM needs. I'm happy (well, perhaps let's say willing) to spend however much I need, so I'd say the general consensus is that a cyclone is the way to go. I want at least 1100 real life CFM. The problem mostly with machines that can provide that much is that they are mostly too big physically. One that I found attractive size wise was from a company called Craftex. I don't know how to make a link, but if anybody who knows a bit about these things could google Busy Bee Tools Vancouver and look at their cyclones, they have self contained rolling units in 2 and 3 hp that would fit my space nicely. I'm sure the filter isn't good enough but could be upgraded, and that even if they are overrated due to poor test procedures they might be enough. If anyone has a minute that'd be pretty cool. Thanks Todd talked me into the big orange pylon a while back. With the wall bracket it really does not take up much space, my high ceilings help though. Im pretty happy with the machine. Dont forget to factor in the cost of ducting, I could not believe what it costs... nearly half the cost of the cyclone for not all that many runs. |
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