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Help ID this antique guitar
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Author:  Dave Livermore [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Help ID this antique guitar
A neighbor brought this over to see if I knew what it was.
I don't. I have suspicions, but nothing concrete.

He is in his 80s and this belonged to his grandmother. It passed through Ellis Island as his mother's sole possession in about 1902.

There are no visible markings inside.
Most interesting is the Panormo style bridge and heel. It also has compensated frets which I've NEVER seen on a guitar. Interesting idea.

Too bad someone along the way strung it up with steel strings.


Any help with I.D. of the builder will be appreciated.

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Thanks for looking,
Dave
Author:  Michael.N. [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
Neither a Panormo bridge or heel although it is based on early Romantic Guitars. I think they were commonly used as travel guitars. The steel strings may be original to this type of Guitar, as evidenced by the machine heads. 1902 is certainly in the area. Probably 'factory' produced in Germany/Austria.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
I concur with Michael.

The heel is typical of continental European guitars, as in before the Spanish guitar swept them all aside. The shaping of this particular one is not very close to the Panormo. The bridge is not Panormo like at all, more like Lacote and that is in keeping with the more eastern European style.

One clue is that the purflings are done violin style, not guitar style

Take a look at the Early Romantic Guitar website here: http://www.earlyromanticguitar.com/

Good luck!
Author:  Dave Livermore [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
Thanks guys.
I am with you on the shape not being Panormo style.
The only thing I had to go by was the Cumpiano book where there's a page on bridge design where one of them was labled Panormo and was ornate and different like this one.

In surfing the ERG site, the shape is similar to some French School instruments in shape and similar bridge.
That site was very interesting.

I still don't know a thing about this though.

The hope still exists that someone will recognize this thing.

Dave
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
As I said, it's based on French/Austrian early Romantic guitars. That style of heel is often referred to as the 'ice cream cone'. The bridge being of the moustache type, it's not typical of Lacote or indeed other French romantic guitars, although you do see that type of bridge during that period.
Some people would refer to this type of Guitar as being 'post romantic' or as being a parlour guitar.
It is possible that it was made in America, although there is no doubt that the design is European based. It's also possible that it was sold through Sears?
Pretty much everything about it tells me it is not a really valuable instrument - at least not valuable in the conventional sense.
I can't say I've seen frets positioned in that manner on a Guitar of this period. There is always the possibility it has been replaced. Having said that, the position markers are typical of such Guitars.
That's about all I can tell you of it.
All IMO - as ever.
Author:  Rick Davis [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
Nice Hall of Shame example! Bridge screwed down, braced and bridge placed for gut but strung with steel, weird fingerboard ... and that's about as bad an upper face crack/displacement as I've seen.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
www.earlyguitar.ning.com
You may find some info there.

Mike
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help ID this antique guitar
The Germans exported these things by the boatload from the late 19th through the early 20th centuries. They had models which copied Spanish, American (Martin) and their own German or French designs.
Old catalogs exist which have page after page of these things.
As Michael said, it is not valuable and it is rather late 19th or early 20th century and not early or mid 19th century. The tuners being of the later type.
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