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Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
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Author:  unkabob [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
I have just completed guitar number one. It is a Kasha classical and the sound is good but the intonation has a problem. I cannot get any consistant results to point me in the right direction.
How much variation is acceptable and what tone am I looking for?
My tuner makes wild swings form when the string is plucked to the sustained note. Which one is the tone to be measured?
If I shim the nut back, I do not get any consistant change.
Should I just put it away for a week to let the strings settle?
Is there a set procedure to follow?

Any help would be appreciated.

Bob :ugeek:
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
You really can't intonate nylon strings that have not settled down, thought if your saddle is located in the right place, it shouldn't be far off anyway. Give them a couple of days. Keep tuning it up until you don't have to for several hours. When I'm trying out a new one, I usually bring it up to tension and tune it up 4 or 5 times, then let it sit, at least, overnight, before I do much playing with it. Most strings will settle within a few days.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
You definately need to let the strings settle some.
Greg byers has some good articals on intonation on classical guitars.
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
If I needed my classicals in tune quickly I would stretch new strings by pulling them individually (especially the unwounds) out from the guitar after tuning, then re-tune several times - helped them settle down quicker, otherwise days for them to stay in tune.
Also curious - what tuner and where is it located?
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
When I was playing recitals I always carried a set of pre-stretched strings in case I had a breakage, I made a frame to keep a set under tension, this frame is now at the RCM so that they can have pre-stretched strings available for students and faculty members. As Woody and others have said, let them settle down for a couple of days before trying to finalise intonation, though really you should try out different strings to see which suit the guitar best tonally before carrying out final intonation work.

Oh, and believe me when you have 19 or 25 gut strings on a lute to contend with, any guitar intonation problem pales into insignificange, but it does make you realise that the final intonation of an instument is the responsibility of the player.

Colin
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
How accurate it your tuner? Most of the clip on ones jump around to much and are not real accurate. I use Peterson strobosoft on my laptop and with the laptop built in mic it is a little flaky but with a pickup in the guitar or a clip on or suction cup piezo sensor it is steady as a rock. I don't have a great enough ear to hear problems in a guitar that is real close, but a bad one I pick up on. After I get it what I feel is right I get a real fussy player I know to play the guitar and usually he will agree with the results of the intonation setup.

Fred
Author:  unkabob [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
Thanks for the help. I left it tuned over night and it is more steady on the meter this morning but I still can't get a predictable change.

My meter is a Korg CA30.

My fretboard was built using the Stewmac calculator which agrees with the locations on the plans but includes compensated saddle location which the plans neglect (allied plans).

Intonation seems more like art than science.

Bob :ugeek:
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
You tuner may be causing some of your variations, that is not a real acurate tuner and is not meant for thinks like intonation. A 1/10th of a cent accuracy is what is usually used, and the Korg CA30 is acurate +/- 1 cent, the best setup guys use strobe tuners.

Fred
Author:  unkabob [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on intonation and getting nowhere except confused
Fred:
I got out my meter stick and jeweler's lupe and added a shim between the nut and fretboard end which puts the first fret, twelfth fret and saddle where they should be. I am getting down to where an accurate tuner becomes useful.

Thanks for the help.

Bob :ugeek:
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