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solera
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28731		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  RonaldD [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  solera
Hello,
what is the best tool (tools) and way to go about fashioning a solera .
Ronald
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Mine are a doubled up thickness of plywood. Cut to shape on bandsaw. I ramp the surface the neck will rest on, to move the neck at the nut position so that it will be 2 to 4 mm in front of the plane of the top. The ramp is cut with whatever hand plane shows up first.

The dome in the solera I rough out with a slightly curved gouge, then finish it up with the ROS. The whole thing gets a few coats of shellac.

The overall process plan (solera, side blocks) is right out of Courtnall's book.

Attachment:
rodriquez-solera.JPG
Author:  RonaldD [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
what is an ROS Jim?
Ronald
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Random Orbit Sander.

My solera is 3/4" MDF glued and screwed to 3/4" plywood. Slots cut for maple blocks to support the sides. Raised lower bout.
Attachment:
DSC03639 (Large).JPG
Author:  senunkan [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
I use 2 pieces of 1cm thick MDF to make the solera.
After gluing them up it still flex quite a bit so I decide to add in 1 more layer of 1cm thick plywood later on

For the doming depression in the lower bout I use gouge, compass plane, block plane and finally sandpaper to create the 5 mm depression.
I did a 2nd solera because I decided to have a elevated fingerboard and added a 1cm thick raised upper bout (MDF) wedge.

Mine 1st solera was done with a 1.5cm thick pine and a 1cm thick MDF

My 2nd solera - still in progress
Image

1st solera - not very nice looking but it works :)
Image
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Here is the solera we used at the Romanillos course. As you can see it's basically birch ply and dimensioned lumber with additional layers of mahogany to form the "lift" in the top.
90 degree angle alumnum brackets were bolted to the bed using T-nuts.
Attachment:
RomanillosCrseGoBar.jpg

Attachment:
RomanillosCrseSolera.jpg

Attachment:
RomanillosCrseNecktoTop.jpg
Author:  RonaldD [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
So David, is that the same as the Bogdanovich style of raising the lower instead of scooping?
If yes what are the advantages?
Ronald
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
I'm not David, but it's similar to Bogdanovich, but it is a Romanillos thing. It is both raised and scooped. Mine is the same way. Doing this adds a bit of tension across and along the lower bout, which acts as a catalyst for faster response.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
.......It also produces a more pronounced doming of the top which imparts structural strength and thus allows a thinner (i.e. less mass) top.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
More elaborate - Here is a Bogdanovich style mold with an elevated lower bout. Mine is shaped to the Romanillos plantilla, but I didn't realize that the Romanillos top is also dished closer to the soundhole - not paying close enough attention to David and Waddy, I guess.

I did leave a 2mm gap between the mold and the raised platform so that the sides can drop in, outside of the top's perimeter.

The guitar in lower left is the Reyes - style flamenco that went to Hegins for John Hall's get together. This is a Courtnall solera again, just with a dished out dome.

Attachment:
body-form-1.jpg
Author:  RonaldD [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
To learn the Romanillos style do you have to go to England and take the course?
Ronald
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
RonaldD wrote:
To learn the Romanillos style do you have to go to England and take the course?
Ronald


Well, that would help. (Course was in Spain, and unfortunately doesn't happen anymore). In the mean time, search out David's and Waddy's posts.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
And also search out posts from "Shawn", Shawn Carlson. He also took the course, and posted some rather significant details in some of his posts. Search for subject Romanillos and member Shawn. Most of it was back in 2007 or so, maybe some in 2008. Shawn has had some health issues, and hasn't been around here for a while. Though, he may just have other fish frying. He and I also had some PM exchanges that had a good bit of detail in them, which I would be glad to share.. Just send me a PM, and we'll discuss how is the best way to do that. Maybe a regular email and I can send you a Word document with the exchange. I have it saved off.

David, have you heard any more about Jose's book? Or, did the museum take the blush off that rose?
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Here's mine. ¾'' MDF, supported by a pine cross under it, that allow me to stuck it in my vise, too. Cherry or Maple side suppors, carved too the exact curve at each place, with a mdf base, that has a .110'' gap to clamp the table down the solera. Hole a bit smaller than the sound hole, to have a good acces but support the "lipps".

Really easy to make, cheap. works great.

I also add my Uke version.

Francis
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Romanillos solera
David, Waddy-
About the Romanillos solera-
thanks for the pics and (some) details.
I can't visualize the contours from the pics.... Basically, how would one go about making a solera of this type?
I'm off to do the search for Shawn and Romanillos....
(The solera I use is just a flat board with a 'hollowed out' lower bout with max hollow/doming at the bridge. Edges are 'falat' ie in one plane with all the hollowing inside the outline of the guitar.)

Thanks
John
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
John, I started with a "Courtnall" solera from his book. I then converted by gluing in a piece of Spruce (Packing material from Shawn at HMT), and hollowing that out for the dome. The difference between my version and Davids, is that his doming goes to the edge of the board and mine stops short, and levels out at the perimeter of the top. I allows me to glue in my dentellones square, ranter than having to angle them to fit the slope of the dome. Not a big deal, just preferences. Here is my before picture.
Attachment:
old solera.JPG
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Romanillos solera
JohnAbercrombie wrote:
Edges are 'falat'

???
Now, who did that with my keyboard???? [uncle]

'flat'
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
My edges are falat too! wow7-eyes laughing6-hehe
Author:  John A [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Is the Romanillos solera one piece of 3/4" ply ? That's what it looks like - I guess he has a cross or braces for support under the 3/4 ply ? Ti-Roux - can you show pics of the back of yours ?

I plan to use 3/4 chipboard (like what is used for desks) with a cross under it to keep it flat and put in a vise - or should I use two pieces of 3/4" chipboard - ?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Mine is 1/2" MDF glued and screwed to a piece of 3/4" plywood. It's heavy, but it's flat. I use a large pneumatic quick release for the support, which allow me to rotate the solera and lock it back down. It has worked great. It really gets it up high, which is nice for me. No more bending over. When I'm working on it it hits me just below my chest, which I find perfect for my working habits. Here is the rig. There is a larger size quick release, and if I were buying another I'd get the bigger one. I just think it would be more stable. It's not perfect, but it sure works for me.
Attachment:
P1020998 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1020999 (Large).JPG
Attachment:
P1030001 (Large).JPG


Since, I have just taken to clamping the bottom support piece to my work surface. It gets it up a bit higher, and gives me a surface to put more junk on while I'm working, but still allows me to unlock and turn the solera easily.

Oh, I also took off all those blocks that were what used to hold it up on my work surface so I could get clamps under it.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Here is another view of the Romanillos solera wth the back being glued as we did it at the course.

Attachment:
RomanillosCrseBackglue.jpg


I made the apron on my own narrower so that i could use my Quick Grips

Attachment:
Laplante#95-backglue.jpg
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Interesting, David. Have you had any problem with Quick Grips losing their grip. I have 5 of my original 8 that now won't grip at certain places - particularly the places I need and use them the most. gaah I call ed Irwin, and they said they'd call me back. That was nearly a year ago. Still haven't heard from them. Maybe its time for a follow-up! beehive
Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Yeah, I've had a few go south on me as well. But they're cheap enough (especially if you find them in the 2 for 1 "4" pack) and are light.
They provide the right amount of pressure for this particular operation and the built in pads are great and really non-marring as long as you keep them free of glue residue.
So far this is the easiest back gluing method I've tried.

Best
Author:  Marc [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
I've had a few Irwins go bad as well. Cleaning the rail and the clamping mechanism with alcohol seemed to restore a few of them back to working order.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: solera
Certainly worth a try. Maybe a wipe with muriatic acid, would do it.
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