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| Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28705 |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I hope to glue my fretboard in place sometime this coming week. What brand of epoxy should I use for this application? I had a suggeston from JJ to use Smith epoxy but I haven't been able to find any in town (checked all the hoobby shops with no success). Ou best hobby shop carries Great Planes epoxy which I've thought about using. If you aren't familiar with it, Great Planes makes products for the Radio Control aircraft market so I'm guessing it's a decent product. Thoughts? I guess I should throw this question out, is there enough difference between brands of epoxy that it matters for this application? I can buy the Loctite brand of epoxy at any of the box stores.......or could use the Home Depot name brand, Behr. I prefer to buy a small quantity of epoxy as I use it so infrequently it will be old before I've used it. With that in mind, do you have a brand name suggestion that I may be able to find locally? I think I can order Smith's epoxy from StewMc if I need to have anything shipped in.......but I prefer to purchase the epoxy locally if that is an option. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I really like West Systems epoxy. There are several options for hardener and resin, plus they have several thickeners/additives. The local boat store carries a full range of their products which makes it handy for me. |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Can you purchase West Systems in small quantities? |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
The G1 and G2 epoxies carried by Lee Valley are West Systems products if I recall correctly. |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Doesn't say so on the bottle Darrel (Industrial Formulators, Port Coquitlam actually), but it's worked fine for me. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Darryl buddy the smallest quantities of West that I have found to date are a six pack of two small packages each and this sells for about $25 at my hardware store. One pack with two packs, the epoxy and the hardener respectively is a perfect quantity for gluing a fret board and having a bit left. If that's too much epoxy for you I like Bob Smith epoxies and they can be found at better hobby stores particularly the ones that sell radio control airplane stuff. If you go the Bob Smith route I would get something with a long open time such as the 1 hour stuff and avoid the 5 minute stuff. Better hobby stores know enough to rotate their epoxy so freshness may not be an issue with them. Big Box store epoxy can be problematic and there have been builders here who had fret boards come off when glued with epoxy from big box stores. IMHO quality epoxy is important. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Darryl buddy the smallest quantities of West that I have found to date are a six pack of two small packages each and this sells for about $25 at my hardware store. One pack with two packs, the epoxy and the hardener respectively is a perfect quantity for gluing a fret board and having a bit left. If that's too much epoxy for you I like Bob Smith epoxies and they can be found at better hobby stores particularly the ones that sell radio control airplane stuff. If you go the Bob Smith route I would get something with a long open time such as the 1 hour stuff and avoid the 5 minute stuff. Better hobby stores know enough to rotate their epoxy so freshness may not be an issue with them. Big Box store epoxy can be problematic and there have been builders here who had fret boards come off when glued with epoxy from big box stores. IMHO quality epoxy is important. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Smiths All Wood epoxy from LMI for me. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Darryl: If you are going to use epoxy for the fingerboard do some research on clamping pressures and dry joints first. Tom |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
System 3, T-88 works quite well. You might be able to find that a good hobby shop. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
why do you use epoxy . tite bond does this very well . Also makes the job or removing a fretboard a lot easier if you should ever need to. |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
Dave Stewart wrote: Doesn't say so on the bottle Darrel (Industrial Formulators, Port Coquitlam actually), but it's worked fine for me. You're right Dave, it says "Industrial Formulators" a "System Three company". I knew it had system in it somewhere  . And you're right, it works well.
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
John, you ask a good question. I'm only considering it after reading many posts that state to use epoxy for glueing on the fretboard so as not to introduce moisture into the neck/fretboard. The thought (I assume) is that this will help prevent the neck warping slightly from the moisture.......which might introduce error on the fret leveling (frets level but as the neck dries maybe it becomes not so level any more). With that said, I've read posts by many others that state they use Titebond or fish glue or HHG or whatever and have never had an issue. Since this is my first build, I sure have no idea. Since I am fretting with the fretboard off the neck and will be trying to level the fretboard (remove the back bow) before gluing it to the neck.......I thought I would play it safe and not add moisture as a variable. I appreciate anyones thoughts on this as I have no idea if there is enough moisture in the glue to cause an issue or not. I've built all the guitar with fish glue so far (except used Duco for the binding/purfling) so I have that on-hand. |
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| Author: | Miketobey [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
The West's with the quite accurate pumps is reliable. Also, West's has a long shelf life( really, post-shelf life-stays reliable after opening). I use it for just about any epoxy project I have. It is also quite clear when dry. The mix I use has a decent open time-sorry, I cannot recall the part numbers. |
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| Author: | ChuckB [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I like Smiths All Wood Epoxy. Slow set gives plenty of time to align the board. You can also use titebond as John said. Just make sure to clamp the board and neck to a flat surface that will not bend. If not, chances are you will get a little back bow, ask me how I know! Chuck |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I will second the T88 system 3, available from Woodcraft for sure. Avoid any Big Box store epoxies. I have not tried the Smith epoxy but I use their CA and after 30 plus years of using many brands of CA for model airplanes and now guitars I have found it to work well and is very predictable in quality, so I would not be against using their epoxy but have not found it locally. Fred |
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| Author: | Rick Davis [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I love West System, have used it in marine apps and on guitars. Would never consider using it to bond a fingerboard or anything else I ever expect to have to remove. As far as I know, the whole "aliphatics warp necks" thread began with one builder and I've never seen one reliable instance of it actually happening. As far as I can tell, it's another one of those lutherie myths that's been spread through the Internet without any actual proof. Use WEST or similar to bond a couple of CF rods on either side of your adjustable truss rod, smear the wood glue of your choice on the surface, clamp to a good straight caul (mine is 3" alum. box section), wait a few hours and move on with the assurance that future repair folks will be able to replace the fingerboard without cursing you. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I've had necks warp with Titebond. Since switching to West epoxy they have been much more stable. How's that for myth busting? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I use TB for all fingerboards except coco .. then its LV G2. My necks all have the FB glued on when the neck is still quite a rectangular block, so I dont get any warping. Plus I leave it clamped up for about 12 hours. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I glue my necks together using my granite plate. after 112 guitar and I don't know how many necks , I never had one warp. I have passed up necks that I feared would warp with too much angled grain. Clamping with a strongboard or anything that holds thing true is just good technique and we should all do it. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I usually use HHG for fretboards (Titebond works very well too). As Tony and John pointed out, the longer it stays clamped with a heavy straight caul, the better (overnight for me). I never had a warped neck, or a backbow. When using CF bars dadoed in fretboard and neck stock I use polyurethane glue (Gorilla glue). I don't expect to disassemble those… |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I will freely admit to a bias here against using waterborne adhesives to adhere FB to neck. I don't usually like to make decisions based on a sample of one ...but...My first neck warped having used HHG to adhere the FB in spite of hard clamping to my heavy bench for 24+ hours. Since that time, I have 100% successfully used epoxy and will probably continue to do so. I currently use 20 minute or 30 minute Bob Smith Epoxy. I have had problems with inconsistent curing using the hardware store brands...probably due to freshness issues. Since changing to a quality epoxy I have never had a cure problem as evidenced by the glass hard remainder left in the the mixing cup. A good tip...don't unclamp the neck until the mixing cup remainder becomes glass hardened. One other thing I've always done with epoxy mixing...I carefully weigh out each component (usually 3-5 grams) on my triple beam balance and then mix in a cup for 3 minutes...really, 3 minutes by the clock. I've also used 5 ml glass syringes to measure out but I ended up having to clean out syringes with acetone and abandoned that method. If nothing else, it insures consistency and makes me feel like a lab rat again. Old habits never die...even the good ones! One negative is the separation process. While it does in fact release with heat, it is more difficult than Titebond or other glues to clean off the surfaces. "It's always something"...Roseanne Roseanadana |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
West for me, too. I've done several and they've been perfect each time. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
I switched to Epoxy from LMI white 5 or 6 guitars ago after reading Rick Turner's feelings on the subject. I must admit that even with clamping to a rigid metal caul for 24-36 hrs I would usually get a tiny hump in the middle of the fretboard. Not much, and easily leveled, but with the epoxy it's gone. I have not decided yet which way to go for the long haul. I recently removed a dovetail Alverez neck that was glued with epoxy and it was a !!@$$ mess to clean up. I may go back to LMI or Tightbond. I've been using medium or gel superglue for the carbon bars. Anyone else doing that? |
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| Author: | Rick Davis [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epoxy Brand Suggestions for Glueing Fretboard |
So I calculated the amount of water in the glue of an average fingerboard-to-neck joint. It's huge! Assuming that the glue is 75% water and the joint averages .005" (both pretty generous, I admit), there is almost .03 fluid ounces of water in there! That's over a milliliter! No wonder all those necks warp! |
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