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Dyes-NGR or Water
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Author:  DannyV [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Dyes-NGR or Water
G'Day,

I'm about to start playing with a burst on a Uke. The top will be black lacquer and done seperate. The back and sides are figured maple and I'm going to try bursting with dye because I think it brings out the figure nicer and is less likely to cover the grain than dyed lacquer. The little I've used aniline dyes I've used alcohol as a base for an NGR stain and have been very happy with the results.
Attachment:
phpekYyyZPM.jpg

I know some people like to use water as a base for dyes and I'm curious why? I could never understand why you would want to raise the grain but I guess there are reasons for it.

Thanks for the help.

Danny
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dyes-NGR or Water
You are going to apply dye to an already sealed surface? That may not work very well. I would mix it into the lacquer and shoot some toner coats. This does not hide the grain, especially if you keep the dye relatively thin. Also, you have less problem with the blotchies that happens when you apply dye directly to the wood.
Author:  runamuck [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dyes-NGR or Water
The reason people use water based analine dyes is because they're color fast. Alcohol and other solvent based dyes tend to fade with exposure to UV.

If you ever decide on a water dye, twice dampen the wood, and sand to prevent raising the grain when the dye is applied.

If you are doing a burst, water based analine over a sealed finish is not an option. I would recommend that you follow Barry Daniel's advice.
Author:  DannyV [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dyes-NGR or Water
No Barry, I'm going to use it on bare maple. I'm pretty sure that applied to bare figured maple it tends to bring out more depth to the figure. If it was spruce I would defiantly seal and dissolve the dye in the next top coat. This is the product I'm using.
https://www.woodessence.com/ColorFX-Dye ... s-C12.aspx
I won't tell you the colours. I't my 11 year old daughter and myself's project. Kid colours. :) I'm pretty sure it's colour fast. The dye can be used in water or alcohol.

Thanks for the"twice dampen the wood" advice Run.

Danny
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dyes-NGR or Water
Colour FX works fine .. one of my students used it on a carved maple top, grey to black burst. We discovered that the centre grey could be lightened up a bit, enhancing the burst by sanding it with a bit of 0000 steel wool (probably scotch pads would work as well). All the tinting was done with two concentrations of FX black in alcohol.
Author:  the Padma [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dyes-NGR or Water
DannyV wrote:
I't my 11 year old daughter and myself's project. Kid colours. :) I'm pretty sure it's colour fast. The dye can be used in water or alcohol.

Danny


At first me thought of gitten me ass up to Powel River and having a good sit down chat with you about burstin that figured maple but then you go say its you and yer daughter and well me decided to save the air fair and recommend a pink to violet burst instead. With a black top, by god it be beautiful... Bet she gonna like that big time.

Gee now that me think of it...me gonna do a pink to violet burst with a midnight violet/black top on me next one. Ya Das what Duh Padma gonna do. But don't be holden yer breath...there are at least a dozen or so between now and the next one.


blessings
duh
Padma


Ps...oh ya, near forgot...dyes. But then what do me know from nuthin.
Author:  TimAllen [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dyes-NGR or Water
If you have good experience with alcohol-based dyes and you have color-fast ones, I'd suggest you leverage your past experience and keep with them. For coloring wood I often use water based dyes because they have worked well for me--they look good, and touch-up is easy if needed. Raising the grain and sanding it down in advance is easy and doesn't take much time. It is sometimes recommended even if you aren't staining, because it can prevent grain rising thru the finish later.

But if you have access to spray equipment, you might consider spraying the sunburst with colored finish. The issue of dying figured wood, instead of spraying color coats over it, is that the dye soaks into some of the figured spots more than others. Some people see this as a benefit; for example, on curly maple, dyed stripes have more contrast. The down side is that the appearance of three-dimensional movement is reduced: the curl stays in the same place. With color in the finish, the movement remains. If you want to contrast these effects, you can often see a dyed burst on Les Pauls, and a finish-colored burst on high-end violins, violas, and cellos.
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