What difference does it make?
If it gets the pig clean ~ use it.
Padma
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28696 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | JeremiahB. [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
OK - I need some help identifying this wood. I was at a local hardware store that has a small section of lumber. I will occasionally browse through the lumber to see if I can spot any spruce boards for possible bracewood, but being in the southeast, the majority is some sort of pine. I spotted two 2 x 4 studs in the store that were almost perfectly quartered, straight grained, and looked very much like some spruce, so I bought them. They are stamped with a W WP which I now know stands for Western Wood Products and also were stamped with ES LP which, according to their website, means lodgepole pine. Apparently Engelmann spruce and lodgepole pine are grouped together for grading purposes. Can someone who's better at wood identification please tell me if this is in fact Engelmann or if it's LP. Both boards are very straight grain, very pale white and fairly clear of knots. I've attached some pics if that'll help. Thanks. |
|
| Author: | runamuck [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
I doubt that anyone will be able to say what kind of wood you have there. At any rate, that wood grew pretty quickly as told by the growth rings and probably not stiff enough for an instrument. |
|
| Author: | JeremiahB. [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
Not sure what you mean by not being stiff enough for any instrument. I know of several people that procure there brace stock from 2 x 6's from Lowes, HD, and such. The difference, though, is that there much more adept at identifying the differences between black spruce, white spruce, doug fir, etc. than I am. All I know is that they were both perfectly quartered which is very rare in a 2 x 4 stud, very straight grained, and clear. I was just hoping to get some back and possibly top braces from them. |
|
| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
If you have some known brace wood on hand, you could just compare it with your 'find'- cut a brace from known stock and from your new sample-same dimensions- and compare their weight and stiffness. For that sort of 'test' you don't need anything fancy - just clamp the two sticks to the edge of the bench and hang a weight (pipe wrench ?) from each brace. Measure the deflection. If it compares well, go ahead and use it! Cheers John |
|
| Author: | JeremiahB. [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
That makes sense. It's very nice looking stuff and it rings like a bell when I rap it with a knuckle. |
|
| Author: | woody b [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
You've already said it rings nicely when tapped. If the stiffness, and weight are right for bracing use it. It doesn't matter what species it is. A guitar doesn't know. |
|
| Author: | Bailey [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
Looks like lodgepole to me. KB |
|
| Author: | the Padma [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
What difference does it make? If it gets the pig clean ~ use it. Padma
|
|
| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
If using sawn wood for brace stock, be sure to check for runout. Quartered, clear, and straight is nice but being free of runout is just as important, maybe more. |
|
| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
It's hard to tell from a picture, but the smell will give you the answer. Pine smells, well... piney. Engelmann has a distinctive smell. Hard to describe, but I've heard it described as a popcorn scent. If you have an Engelmann top around, you can compare. |
|
| Author: | JeremiahB. [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
Thanks for all the replies and help. I'm definitely going to split it and check the runout. If the split runs pretty straight, the wood is strong, and it rings like a bell, I guess it doesn't matter what it is. |
|
| Author: | the Padma [ Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
JeremiahB. wrote: I'm definitely going to split it and check the runout. If the split runs pretty straight, the wood is strong, and it rings like a bell, I guess it doesn't matter what it is. Yay! Now yer gettin the big idea. blessings Padma
|
|
| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
Quote: "JeremiahB." Can someone who's better at wood identification please tell me if this is in fact Engelmann or if it's LP. Both boards are very straight grain, very pale white and fairly clear of knots. No one can really do this from a picture, other than a high-resolution cross-section photo. Get out your hand lens, make a very clean cut on the end grain and follow along ... "hard" pines (including lodgepole): longitudinal resin canals numerous, quite evenly distributed in the outer portion of every growth ring, generally visible to naked eye as dark-or light-coloured dots or as small openings, relatively conspicuous with a hand lens; transition from earlywood to latewood more or less abrupt eastern spruces (including Englemann): longitudinal resin canals generally sparse, unevenly distributed, sometimes absent, invisible or barely visible and not conspicuous with hand lens; latewood not pronounced, transition early to latewood gradual Source: Panshin, A.J. and de Zeeuw, C. 1970. Textbook of wood technology. 3rd Edition. McGraw-Hill. If you have other known samples of "hard" pines (not white or "soft" pines) and eastern spruce (not Sitka), you should be able to understand the above features and make the identification. Good luck! Quote:
|
|
| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
The biggest thing I noticed is that some 2x4 wood strongly resembles Spruce top wood and some doesn't.... Eventually, you get the hang of picking out the Pine and the Fir from the Spruce.... Or... Buy some Bona-fide "Spruce Split Brace Wood" and use it to compare against.... Personally -- I have made all the bracing from split out dimensional lumber in all of my guitars so far (3 finished, 2 more on the way) ..... The *KEY* that is absolutely critical -- split it out.... You never know what sort of evil lurks under the neatly sanded surface of an SPF 2x4..... and so for a Pro-builder... It's likely a waste of time.... Hours spent picking through the stack, only to find 0 likely candidates.... BUT... It can be good practice for us Amateurs -- we need to learn better how to "Read" the grain on a piece of wood.... You really need to see this when you split it out.... Attachment: Splitting knife 1.JPG And not this: Attachment: MIMF Challenge 002.jpg Thanks John |
|
| Author: | K.O. [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
being from Nevada I lumped lodgepole pine in as Pondarosa pine... a 1 meg pdf illustrates an I.D. key http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/mcbroommatth/Lectures/Wood_Science/Lab_2_Resin_Canal_Species.PDF tis near wantin to say its pondarosa pine is where me mind seems to be stuck at... never smelled engelman that had much of a pine smell. |
|
| Author: | K.O. [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
being from Nevada I lumped lodgepole pine in as Pondarosa pine... a 1 meg pdf illustrates an I.D. key http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/mcbroommatth/Lectures/Wood_Science/Lab_2_Resin_Canal_Species.PDF tis near wantin to say its pondarosa pine is where me mind seems to be stuck at... never smelled engelman that had much of a pine smell. |
|
| Author: | K.O. [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wood identification - Engelmann spruce or Lodgepole Pine |
oops  dubba post...
|
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|