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Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28647
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Author:  John A [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Hi everyone,

I want to put a leaf in the finish of my guitar. I am not at that stage yet - but I will be french polishing - is there a way to preserve the leaf and shape - maybe poly over the leaf after it is dry ? is there a way to preserve the color of the leaf ?

On fly rods a feather is sometimes inset near the handle and coated with the varnish. I am thinking of the same thing - but with a leaf.

Thanks !

Author:  Yukon [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

I think it's a great idea. I don't know what all of the steps will be but you've touched on the first. I'd start by drying the leaf in the pages of a book that you the tightly clamp so that it dries as flat as possible.
I suspect it will be tough to french polish as you'd have to have quite a buildup of finish to cover the leaf and create a flat surface. Will it be on the headstock? Maybe you could use varnish or lacquer there and then french polish the rest of your instrument.

Author:  John A [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

I was thinking more on the back upper bout. - So if it is a little bumpy it will only add interest and texture. I don't plan to route out a space for it and inset it - for simplicity sake, I would just like to lay it on top. Most likely regardless of the answers here I will try it and see how I like it.

Author:  runamuck [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Any organic material will decompose if exposed to the slightest bit of oxygen. Unless you encase
the leaf in an airtight finish - which shellac is not - it will eventually become a problem.

Author:  John A [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

runamuck wrote:
Any organic material will decompose if exposed to the slightest bit of oxygen. Unless you encase
the leaf in an airtight finish - which shellac is not - it will eventually become a problem.


Yes I figured the same - what finish do you suggest ? Poly ? how about encasing in a resin ?

Author:  Stuart Gort [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

There's a lot of moisture in a leaf. Trying to trap ANY moisture under a finish seems problematic. Soaking a leaf in saline solution (many possible solutions....alcohol....formaldehyde...I don't know) and then placing it under high vacuum might help prepare it for laminating.

I wouldn't bet a lot of money that this is going to work out without some pretty serious experiementation.

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Check with Michael's or some other craft store. There are products designed to put a leaf or a flower in that will preserve the color, yet remove the moisture. Probably some form of silica gel product, but they work. They have all kinds of stuff for scrap-booking dried leaves and flowers. That would be my first step. They also probably have some kind of clear coat preservative.

Author:  Daniel Minard [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Freeze drying preserves the colour. As long as it's sterile (no active organisms present) & at least as dry as the wood, you should be able to pull it off. Pretty cool if you can make it work.
It might work well to inlay it & bed it in clear epoxy. Then you could retain some of the 3-D effect of the veins.

Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Our standard preservation solution for leaves and plant materials at the New York State Museum was a mixture of 25% Ethanol, 25% Acetone and 50% Glycerin.
The materials were immersed in this bath for several months. The solvents extracted the water from the leaves while the glycerin kept them soft and flexible.
I think the glycerin will be problematic with most finishes but alcohol and acetone should be ok.
Somehow I think that a leaf design inlay in a contrasting wood veneer (perhaps with burn-in tool veins etc.) is far more in keeping with the media used to create a guitar and ultimately far easier than what you're contemplating.

Author:  John A [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Quote:
Somehow I think that a leaf design inlay in a contrasting wood veneer (perhaps with burn-in tool veins etc.) is far more in keeping with the media used to create a guitar and ultimately far easier than what you're contemplating.



Hence my plan B -

I wanted to avoid inlaying - I thought I would take the easier route and for something a little bit different - I don;t mind practicing inlaying as I have a lot of veneers I do not plan to use -

Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

While this may be a nice idea , there are way too many concerns for it. You should be better off inlaying a leaf or painting one. The leaf when dry will still be pretty thick and applying a French Polish to cover it would be a difficult task at best .

Author:  Matt Shumway [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

It couldn't hurt to get some wood scraps and test out what you are planning on those before doing it on the guitar. Maybe this is a given but figured I would throw it in there. :mrgreen:

Author:  Mark Groza [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

I think plastic resin would work just fine. I intombed this raccoon foot in it over 30 years ago and it's in the same condition as when i did it except for the resin yellowing some.

Author:  JasonMoe [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

I used to do taxidermy in the past. There is a solution you can get. Heres the url: http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/produc ... clear-pint

It makes the leaves and grass' stay soft and colorfast. Alot of people use it to make habitat for mounts more lifelike. It might work. There are different colors too.

Author:  Quine [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Hey Mark....was the raccoon attached to that foot when you encased it?? wow7-eyes

Author:  Foster [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

I worked on a Martin D-18 with a broken head stock. While I was pulling the tuning machines off I saw a mosquito under the finish. Everyone that came by my shop for a week got a look at it. It made for a lot of laughs and bad jokes.

Author:  Mark Groza [ Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Preserving and incorporating an organic leaf in finishing

Quine wrote:
Hey Mark....was the raccoon attached to that foot when you encased it?? wow7-eyes

No, the rest of the coon went to the furbuyer. ;)

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