I love routers.
I think part of your problem is that big bit. I use both a top bearing and bottom bearing bits so if something happens at least its only to half (most of the time).
Looks really good otherwise, dig the nifty cover plate.
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| Progress and screw ups on my electric http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28626 |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
That sucks, Filippo. Something similar happened to me when I was trimming the plates of my Les Paul with an equally long bit. I'm sorry it happened and hope you find an aesthetically pleasing way to work through it. |
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I love routers. I think part of your problem is that big bit. I use both a top bearing and bottom bearing bits so if something happens at least its only to half (most of the time). Looks really good otherwise, dig the nifty cover plate. |
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I was told a while back by a long time 'lectric routerer that the big bits are no good, but if they work all the more power to yea. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Why not just take it down with a Robosander and some 40G or 80G and finish with the router. That's what I do with all my template work and it pretty much eliminates any risk as you're only taking off a 32nd or so with the router. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Why not just take it down with a Robosander and some 40G or 80G and finish with the router. That's what I do with all my template work and it pretty much eliminates any risk as you're only taking off a 32nd or so with the router. |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
That one horn looks like the crumbling stairway near the bridge of Khazad-dum. Jump Frodo!! |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
hey fil, ouch. oops, whatever. if you have a template for the body, and a 1 to 1 top bearing bit, even if it's only a half inch long, you can do a pass, then lower the bit, then lower it again, then use a bottom bearing bit from the bottom. 1 to 1 is really nice that way. don't try to do it in one pass, especially when u got's a lot of wood on da other side of da bit. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Zipes! Routers with long bits make me very nervous, I gave up entirely and instead sand with robos slowly but very safe and comfortably. Glad no humans were altered in the fracas... |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I count to 10 on my fingers, if I make it, then it was a small mistake. Spirals are great, but when you get around that end grain, any bit is tough, I like to climb cut little reliefs with the router, then go back and clean them up in the right direction. I also like serrated spirals, though not the super clean cut, it is still clean, but they are much less grabby then the standard spirals. I have a great picture of my daughter working our Grizzly Uke kit, with a picture that will sum up your feelings. I will post later this week, waiting until the "build" is complete to post. Glad you are OK and the guitar will still be a guitar, even with some deviation from the original plan. Rob |
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| Author: | Mark A Thorpe [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I have had something similar happen, my only advice would be for you to use a safety guide pin. http://www.routerworkshop.com/safetypin01.html#190 |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I've had similar experiences. It sucks, but you learn from it. Fortunately your project is recoverable! As you've figured out, thicker templates and much less material to remove are the keys to success. Also a slow, steady feed rate,light passes, and a VERY secure grip! Your bit grabbed a bit of end grain and pulled the wood from your hand, once that got started your fate was sealed. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I've had similar experiences with big router bits when building furniture. I never did like using them; every once in a while they'll catch something then bad things happen real fast. I never got hurt but tore up some wood and had some good scares. I don't use those big bits anymore. |
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| Author: | Marcus [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Quote: took hold of the body and yanked it out of my hands ... I physically winced when I read that. I get absolutely terrified when the router does that to me. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Marcus wrote: Quote: took hold of the body and yanked it out of my hands ... I physically winced when I read that. I get absolutely terrified when the router does that to me. Me too. When it happened with my Les Paul this past spring, it was because I was taking too much of a cut and the bit grabbed the bushing guide. The torque shattered the router base, and I managed to pull it up out of the cut somehow without making contact with the sides. Turned the router off, unplugged it, and walked inside feeling like I needed to make peace with my demons
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
phew! hey filippo, i used yer magnet trick to hold on an access cover on a p bass for a friend. sweet! thanks! alan |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
I wonder if order of operations could make this easier, template rout the back before attaching the top, then the slightly oversize top can glued then flush routed with the binding router setup and a larger bearing. A thought on the router bits, I think of capacity of cut as a percentage of the bit radius, when you get near the centerline of the bit, it gets grabby, so if you had 1/4 material on a 1/2" bit, you were right there. Not an electric player, but I sure do want to play this guitar. Looks great Rob |
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
What has always worked for me is coming in gently on the tip of the horn, and going downhill from each direction there. Especially important here to have the least amount of material as possible. Ever since my very first routing experience where I caught end grain and had the body ripped out of my hands, I keep a death grip on that sucker and that combined with light passes and proper direction have not had an incident since. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Jeez, Filippo, do us all a favor (and yourself) and get a book on routers and safety. I'd be scared to be in the room with you doing that!  The proper way to have done that would have been to make the top carved part the actual size, glue it on, cut the bottom close and then rout the bottom to it. You are very lucky you still have 8 & 2... |
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| Author: | Haans [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
That's it Filippo. Screwing on a floppy template to a contoured piece of wood is asking for a trip to emergency. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Small bits would just make smaller bites, to be honest, but with that much to route away, you're asking for trouble. I bandsaw as close as safely possible, then sand (spindle) close (within 1/16"), and finish with a full-depth pass with the router. I tend to route the body first, glue to top, then trim the top to the body with a router (or sander). |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Here is how we do carve tops in my shop .. the carve comes last .. after the body is all glued up. In order to template route .... Make a template a 1/16 narrower than the actual size/shape you want. Now you dont have to use a full height, or at least tall, top or bottom bearing bit and trake it all in one pass. Screw the template down into PU route areas, pot positions, neck pocket, whatever is usefull. Use a template guide, and bit that is 1/8 smaller in DIAMETER ... so 1/16 per side of the bit. I like to use 5/8 guide and 1/2 inch bits. Now you can route in small passes, taking only 1/8 to 3/16 per pass, then dropping the bit. You may get a bit of witness between the passes, but a spindle and disk sander take them out in a couple minutes. |
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| Author: | Mark A Thorpe [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Hans, aside from the cutting close comment, I don't understand why the top to size is the answer. Are you implying that the top then becomes the guide for the bearing? That would solve the template issue... Filippo That is what I do on my electrics, make the top to size, glue together, and route the rest of the body to the top. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
edward, gently, key word. tiny bites. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
Amazing that no one has talked about climb cuts versus non-climb cuts yet. The problem was not the template. The problem was taking too big of a cut in end grain and (most important) cutting in the wrong direction. If you had started on the other horn and cut towards the horn that got torn up, this would not have happened. Cutting in the direction that you did, allowed the router bit to self-feed into the stock which pulled the work from your hand. I'm glad you were not hurt. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Progress and screw ups on my electric |
There are some situations where a climb cut is acceptable. Such as a small cut, parallel to the grain, in a chip prone wood like ebony. But your situation had all the wrong things going for it (i.e.; thick stock, hardwood, end grain, heavy cut) and an accident was almost guaranteed. So most of the time, you should be making a non-climb cut where the stock moves from the right to the left (the reverse is true for hand held routing). I draw an arrow on my router plate right next to the bit to remind me which way to cut. |
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