I believe the two separate circuits would have to be on opposite sides of the breaker panel. As in the red side and the black side.
But not being a sparkie, what do me know about anything.
blessings
Padma
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Very cool device |
I found a 110 to 220 step up converter that allows me to use 220 despite the fact that I only have 110 in the shop. I thought maybe some of the forum members would be interested. How it works: It requires two 110 power sources, you simply plug each plug into outlets on two separate circuits. It then does what an electrician would do and basically ties the two 110's to make 220. Pretty cool, especially since upgrading to 220 was not an option for me due to limited power. I had no idea that anything like this even existed. Here's a link if anyone else is interested. http://www.110220volts.com/220V-20A.html |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
fingerstyle1978 wrote: I found a 110 to 220 step up converter that allows me to use 220 despite the fact that I only have 110 in the shop. I thought maybe some of the forum members would be interested. How it works: It requires two 110 power sources, you simply plug each plug into outlets on two separate circuits. It then does what an electrician would do and basically ties the two 110's to make 220. Pretty cool, especially since upgrading to 220 was not an option for me due to limited power. I had no idea that anything like this even existed. Here's a link if anyone else is interested. http://www.110220volts.com/220V-20A.html They do exist, and are quite good for what they do , the ONLY draw back to most of these units is that they, like any phase converter , are at about 80% capacity of what straight 220 will do . Basically you have 220 power , but the machine is running at 80-90% of capacity . Most situations it doesnt matter . Excellent link BTW . alot of people are not aware that tese are available. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
I believe the two separate circuits would have to be on opposite sides of the breaker panel. As in the red side and the black side. But not being a sparkie, what do me know about anything. blessings Padma
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
the Padma wrote: I believe the two separate circuits would have to be on opposite sides of the breaker panel. As in the red side and the black side. But not being a sparkie, what do me know about anything. blessings PadmaMost residential wont have black red sides , thats generally only comercial , at least here . However , the fact that you know that Padma , shows your a sparkie at heart  You do make a good point though , opposing sides couldnt hurt . |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
I explained the situation to the tech when I called. My shop has one line running in which is split into four 15A circuits on fuses. I specifically asked about this and he ensured me that it would work. It's in the mail right now, I'll be sure to let you know how it pans out. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
Should work fine , Depends on what your running . You might see lights dim a bit during start up , however that unit DOES advetise for overage at start up . Either way it is a EXTREEMLY cost effective method of getting 220. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | AlBDarned [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
a normal 220 circuit runs from both sides as the states, but no step up device is needed to get up to 220 for that, you have 220 from the 110 + 110 - maybe this one 'steps up' the 110 to 220 some other way and just needs the 2 circuits so as not to blow the fuses 
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
I would think that the amps would be the only thing different from a regular 220 circuit which is usually 50 amps right? |
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| Author: | AlBDarned [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
well, the amps is determined by whatever's drawing the power, and the breaker just flips if you try to pull too much ... i'm not sure what a 220 would cap out at - depends on the breaker & i guess the transformer down the street - you can get 50 easy tho, ya.... |
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| Author: | sanaka [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
If the two circuits used indeed originate from opposing legs/phases in your service panel, then it's a simple matter of connecting wires to their correct terminals, no conversion or step up required and no loss of efficiency - it is electrically no different than runnning 220 right out of the panel. Sounds like the device mentioned uses a converter or tranny that means it doesn't matter which phases you're drawing from. This is cool if that's all that is available, but a little investigation to find two outlets from opposing legs, and some wire and a few parts from Home Depot could yield a better solution more cheaply. Peace, Sanaka |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
sanaka wrote: If the two circuits used indeed originate from opposing legs/phases in your service panel, then it's a simple matter of connecting wires to their correct terminals, no conversion or step up required and no loss of efficiency - it is electrically no different than runnning 220 right out of the panel. Sounds like the device mentioned uses a converter or tranny that means it doesn't matter which phases you're drawing from. This is cool if that's all that is available, but a little investigation to find two outlets from opposing legs, and some wire and a few parts from Home Depot could yield a better solution more cheaply. Peace, Sanaka You are correct , however this device is made to allow the " layman " as it were to accomplish this "WITHOUT" opening the panel . it is a safe and convenient way for the average home owner to operate a 220v unit with out getting into a sitch that gets him electricuted ! |
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| Author: | AlBDarned [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
yeah, that's my take. but say you only run one leg out to the garage where your tools are and you need 220 there, that's where you'd need the stepper upper. or run out a cable from the other leg - cable might have to be hefty if it's a lotta amps. |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
I'm an electrical contractor (40 yrs.) . This device is nothing more than a 220V outlet and two extension cords. The little light is across the two hot phases to help you find the necessary other circuit. It has nothing inside to generate more electricity. I admire the guy for his creative thinking and perserverence in getting a box built and on the market, I wish I had thought of it first. Maybe he'll make a zillion dollars. Now that I understand this device I could build one for about $20, however I'm not sure its legal per the code book. It will work and should be relativly safe. Maybe some of you can use it to help out in a bind. The poster who only had a single leg out to his garage is out of luck unless he has a long extension cord to run back to the house to pick up the other leg.  Whatever........... Mikey |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
It also does not make you tie up your 115 circuits for 240 when you don't need it. You just have to unplug. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Very cool device |
How could this possibly work if both circuits originated from the same side of the bus bar? |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
Unless it has some sort of phase reversal device, it would only work if plugged into circuits run off different phases I would think? |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
You'll pay $250 for that crap and have to buy a #12 gage extension cord and string it out to another outlet that's on a the other leg that it's plugged into instead of getting an electrician to run you a proper outlet in your shop for probably less then that? You all must have money to waste. Check and see if there is a UL stamp on that devise. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
Jeff Highland wrote: Unless it has some sort of phase reversal device, it would only work if plugged into circuits run off different phases I would think? You are correct. It states on the first line under Input "•Voltage: 108 to 125 Volts AC, 60 HZ, non-GFI circuits, two circuits, out of phase " That tells me it doesn't have any kind of phase convertor. Chris Paulick wrote: You'll pay $250 for that crap and have to buy a #12 gage extension cord and string it out to another outlet that's on a the other leg that it's plugged into instead of getting an electrician to run you a proper outlet in your shop for probably less then that? You all must have money to waste. Check and see if there is a UL stamp on that devise. I didn't see the price until I read that. I could make one for $25 or so. I won't be making any, since I think it's a bad idea. Like Chris said, call and electrician. When you recieve it, send it back. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Very cool device |
Well, I needed a 220 outlet for my compressor and bandsaw. So, I looked it up on the Internet, went to lowes, bought the right breakers and did it myself. Panel is in my shop so it was easy. I do not recommend this to folks who are mechanically/electrically disinclined!!! We certainly do not want to read a "Sad News" post about you on this forum. Like Chris said, u can hire it done for a couple of sawbucks. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
Depends on where you live, of course, but around here I could get an electrician to put in a new circuit for that much or less. Just have to have space in the service entrance for the new 240 breaker. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Very cool device |
That's right, I remember now. I used a 240 volt, 20 amp breaker that bridges both buses. Lowes, $30. Some 18 gauge 3 wire, and a 220 outlet. Do not attempt to use a standard outlet. I put the outlet a couple if feet from rhe panel. Don't think it cost more than $75 total. When doing this work, go to outdoor breaker and throw that switch (as well as the main panel switch). Use a meter to assure no voltage is on the main panel (before the main breaker). Do something to outdoor breaker so no one will flip it on while ur inside working (I put masking tape on it). Run wire to outlet first, assemble. Next, connect wire to breaker, then snap it in to the panel bus. Theoretically, you should never have to touch any existing wires. Turn outdoor breaker on, then indoor breaker. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
Well, I'm out of space on the breaker. Like I said, there is one line coming in off of one side of the breaker which is split into four 15 amp circuits. Even though it comes in on one line, as long as it is plugged into two different circuits it will work, at least the tech claims it will work. If not I'll return it for a full refund. What is all the hostility? Do I have money to burn? Absolutely not, I simply do not have any other way of getting 220 without upgrading my 100 amp service, digging a hole from the house to the shop which would involve jackhammering concrete and asphalt to bury a new line. We are talking about thousands of dollars, or time that I do not have. So a $250 solution for me is completely reasonable. Now. Not being a sparky I don't know whether there was a more feasible/cost effective solution or not. I simply found this solution to work for me, if it in fact works. Questioning my fiscal responsibility and looking down your nose at my decision are in my opinion completely uncalled for. If that is how you feel, please keep those comments to yourself. However if you can offer a better solution to my dilemma, please feel free to chime in. I was only hoping to help others who are in similar situations. |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
fingerstyle1978 wrote: .................. I simply do not have any other way of getting 220 without upgrading my 100 amp service, digging a hole from the house to the shop which would involve jackhammering concrete and asphalt to bury a new line. We are talking about thousands of dollars, or time that I do not have. So a $250 solution for me is completely reasonable. You already have '220' in your main breaker panel- half the 110v circuits run off 'one side' of the 220 (black & white wires), the other half off the other (red& white). 220 circuits are connected across the 'black & red' using a double-width 220 breaker. Talk to an electrician - there is no need to upgrade your service or run up big expenses. It is a common thing where I've lived to add a 'pony box' (small extra box) to the main breaker panel to add a few more circuits. The pony box is connected to a larger breaker (40A?) on the main panel; the space for the pony breaker is obtained by moving a couple of circuits to the pony box if necessary. Mike O'Melia's advice about throwing the main breaker(s) is excellent. I was surprised to find that not all jurisdictions require a main breaker on the panel (apparently they depend on pulling the meter) , and working on a live panel is dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. This is a job where you know instantly whether you should call in a professional. Saving a couple of hundred dollars isn't worth being 'long time dead'. Cheers John |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
There are several options that might be available to you. You may be able to set a subpanel out at the shop and use the wires coming there now to feed the panel or if the existing wires feeding the 5 circuits you have is in conduit you might be able to pull in another conductor to name two. I'm not too sure you really know what you have there by the discribtion of one wire feeding 5 circuits? Call a couple of laid off electricians looking for side jobs and see what they say. There are plenty of them out there these days(including me) and see what they say. That box has to be fed by two outlets on different legs, L1 and L2. If not you would only need 1 plug and there would be a 110-220 transformer in that box. Don't even accept the delivery and save yourself the return postage. Call an electrician as it won't cost you anything to get a quote or price. Just get a couple if you don't know them. Mike, I hope you used #12 and not #18 for the 20 amp. breaker. And use #14 for a 15 amp. breaker. And a piece of tape over a breaker isn't proper Lock Out .  Most mains outside have a way to lock the panel or breaker encloser door/cover with a pad lock.Sorry about the comment. I just hate seeing people get taken by stuff like that. I saw that thing before. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Very cool device |
Oh yeah, I'm pretty certain that devise isn't to national electrical codes standards because the breakers that feed the 220 circuit aren't mechanically tied together so that when one leg trips so does the other leg. It's possible that the one breaker of L1 can trip and L2 breaker can remain on. It could present an electrical hazard. You might think the power is off and go to pull one of the plugs , say the tripped breaker one and then hit the plug blade and the 110 comes through the saw motor and through you to ground. There's some food for thought.  You can also dig a ditch down at each side of the driveway and sometimes use a water hose connected to a pvc conduit to tunnel under the driveway depending on your soil conditions. |
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