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Re-Topping #5
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Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re-Topping #5
Most of you probably saw my other thread, and there were a few pictures there, but I thought it might be a good thread to show how I re-topped my current build - Cocobolo/Lutz classical.

I made a mess of trying to repair some purfling issues on the top, where lines popped out. Lots of Spruce chip-out.
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Using my Ridgid trim router, I routed the top just on the inside edge of the binding. I used the Ridgid because it is the only one with at bearing assembly that is adjustable enough to reach over the binding. On all the others you have to add a shim to get it out far enough. With the Ridgid, you can actually route inside by inches. If you have not looked at the new ones, you should. I remember a post by Dennis about them, and he was right. It's like they took all the complaints about trim router adjustibility and incorporated all the fixes in the new machine. Locking collar for gross adjustments, and a second locking collar for micro adjustments with a top mounted thumb wheel that you can actually get to, clear base to see your work, hole the right size for standard router bushing guides, plus all the attachments for nearly any use you can imagine, all for $99, including a lifetime service agreement. But, I digress. Routing out the top took several passes, with depth adjustments and width of cut adjustments, but went quickly. I left the binding in place to control the fit of the top. I did cut through it in a couple of places, by error, but I'm planning to rout it out anyway, so I didn't care. .
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Thicknessed and joined a new Lutz top from some of Shane's stuff I had on hand.
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Here is the join line. I can live with this.
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More coming.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Drew in the outline from my template, which I had checked, and it fit pretty well into the inside edge of the binding.
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Here is the inside of the guitar after routing off the top. Still needs some cleaning up around the edges, to get off the scraps of Spruce that are still attached, so I'll have a clean gluing surface.
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Fit of the template.
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Here is the edge of the new top - Nice!
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Repairing the middle TB, for a place where it split, when I was getting the top loose.
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Here, it's glued on with HHG. I did clean it up a little more, and it's pretty much invisible.
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Leveling the braces, mostly to get the center one to the right height. I left the addition a bit proud.
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Cut some fan and finger braces out and planed them to rough dimensions.
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Still more coming.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Sanded the old top down from the back to thin it where the rosette is installed, so I could cut it out, and not have to work it too much after removing, as I was afraid it would be pretty fragile.
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Cut out the rosette with my trusty circle cutter. One nice thing about cutting the soundhole out with a circle cutter, is that it fits back into the hole with a friction fit, and makes it easy to center the circle cutter. It's also fast and clean, if you cut from both sides. I did loose the outside purfling strip, which was a strip of Cocobolo. I have some more of it.
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Thinned the back a bit more, till I could see the pattern through the Spruce.
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Jumping around a bit now. Here is the new top, cut to the template, but left the lines so it would be a bit proud. That way I can take down the areas that don't fit to get a nice tight fit. That will help keep things centered when I install it.
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Marking for cutting out the channel for the rosette in the new top.
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Carefully measured and cut the perimeter lines for the channel.
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Still more! gaah
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Removing the waste with a chisel. Why? Because it was quicker than setting up the router circle cutter, which uses the Ridgid.
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Here is the fit, and the strip of Coco for the outside ring.
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Glued it in with HHG.
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Thinned the lower bout to graduate it to the edges, and fitted it to the inside of the remaining binding.
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Cut out the sound hole and prepared for gluing on the fan braces.
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Gluing in fan braces.
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Gluing in the rest of the finger braces, closing braces, and patches.
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Even more!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Let's talk about shop clutter! Lets not! [headinwall] Here is the open body awaiting the top, while I carve braces.
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Checking the fit.
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Marked the top for the glue areas that need to be covered. I decided to use HHG, since that's what I use when I glue tops in normally. This is just a bit different.
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Heated the areas around the top, and put beads of HHG in the necessary places, and glued the sucker down to the top. Using the solera this way kept everything in place. I was afraid if I put glue around the dentellones around the box, I'd have a glue mess inside the guitar, that would be impossible to clean up. this way, I'll have some run-out, but it'll stay on the top and not create a problem, and not be too visible.
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Here it is glued on. the center brace hung a bit on the neck patch, so I'm going to have to put some hhg in there and re-glue it, but I don't see a problem with that. It glued at the edges, but lifted in the center area. It's easy to reach and clamp. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Now I can route off the binding and re-do the purfling and binding for the top. Shouldn't be too hard.
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One more post, and I'm outa here!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
At the waist.
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Just a couple of the glue inside.
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Some glue outside the lines, but I'm not overly concerned with it. Now I have to get on with finishing this thing up. Next comes binding and purfling, and a bit of selective thinning around the upper bout, where it's a little proud of the neck join. Easily fixed, and re-gluing the middle TB. Almost back to where I left off.

Thanks for checking in. With all the talk about build threads, I thought this might be worthwhile.
Author:  Stephen Boone [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
That looks pretty darn cool.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Nice job Waddy [:Y:] And makes a great tutorial for anybody trying to remove a top for the first time.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Thanks, boys, I'm happy it came out as well as it did.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Great job Waddy!! That was a brave move but the results are well worth the effort! Maybe I will use your courage as a motivator to get working on fixing this older Gibson J-55 that I need to fix up for a friend (Xis off on one corner and the top is sunk with about four major cracks). That new top you selected sure is perty!!

Shane
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
It had to be pretty, Shane! It was one of yours, as was the last one.
Author:  Miketobey [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Impressive-no matter the level of experience-just plain impressive.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Thanks, Mike. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, now, though I approached it with some apprehension.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Is there a simple word for "Glutton for punishment"?

Good job! Wouldn't want to have to do that too many times.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Waddy, looks like it came out great, good job!
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Great job, Waddy - I truly hope I never have to go there.

How did you go about freeing up the top from the transverse braces? Was heat enough?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
That was a bit tricky. I tried heat, but it didn't seem to work. I couldn't get pallet knives in there very well, as the finger braces were in the way. Finally I just worked a chisel in there, and broke it off. That's how I broke the middle brace. For the most part they came off reasonably clean. I did have a touch of top left in some places. Over all it was not as hard as I imagined it would be. I figured the worst that would happen would be that I'd have to re-make the TB's.
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
I saved this one Waddy........just in case a fellow builder needs the advice ;) Great save, some nice work and I'm sure a learning experience for you and others.
Author:  alan stassforth [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
wow! nice days work, waddy!
Author:  John A [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Waddy,

I don't know how you can get so much done in a short amount of time !! taken me months to get what you did in a week ! and it looks great !
Author:  fric [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Waddy , good great job. congret....

one more thing you should to do is to put together all your text and pic in one sequence and move it to tutorial section

once more good job

fric
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-Topping #5
Thanks, guys!

Fric, you cant have more than 8 pictures in one post. Forum restrictions. It helps keep a large post from slowing things down so much when all those photos have to load.
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