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guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28415		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  paw300 [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
i consider myself a dedicated, foolish, amateur luthier and have set out to build an classical acoustic guitar from a log completely by hand. i got a decent log that i assume is maple and am in the middle of flat sawing planks from it. first, of what will be tons of questions is: what are your opinions of of 3 or even 4 piece top and back for it? i know it will heavy enough as is, but i want to stick to plan of one log. should i be treating the planks with mineral oil or something as i cut them off, or will sticking them up in my closet be good enough? can wood be stained using fire ashes like with a stencil? is a tin can, lightbulb bending iron gonna be good enough for ?maple?; it works for basswood :)? i guess that's it for now: thanks for reading.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Paul,

First, if you haven't flat sawn everything, it would be better to get as much QS wood out of the log as you can - it is more stable in the long run sawn that way, and sides behave better while bending. If you can split appropriate lengths of logs (2' for backs, 3' for sides) and then process on a bandsaw, that will be a lot better.

Now, maple is not going to make you a good guitar top (at least following any conventional plans), and, for a classical, it is going to produce a hefty neck as well. The neck will not be a huge drawback for a first guitar, but you should really make a more appropriate choice for a top if you are willing to go outside your one log constraint.

I have a modified dred body in maple that is sitting awaiting a neck, and I liked working with it a lot - it was my first time for maple back and sides. I prefer classical builds, and if Torres liked maple, how bad a choice could it be? [:Y:]
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Oh, and welcome to the OLF!
Author:  John A [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
sounds like the log is wet if he plans to sticker it.

You may want to pick up some building books if you haven't already. A maple top would sound odd. Any reason you want to build with one log ? - If I had to make a classical out of one log - it would be made out of walnut.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
John A wrote:
If I had to make a classical out of one log - it would be made out of walnut.


Can you bend Cedar? Seems like that would be a good choice for a one log guitar.
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
I believe I have seen our Padma bend it with great success.

Us mere mortals- idk....
Author:  paw300 [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
thanks all. i'm not all that concerned with it being 'odd' sounding: i'm sticking with one log unless i run out of wood. this guy doesn't speak too lowly of maple tops (just not maple on maple):

http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm

and i have a ?1953 gibson? archtop that's all maple, though it is veneer, and it sounds good enough for me. the log is probably pretty wet: i picked it from a city mulch dump site and it looked kind of fresh cut like a month or two (those are 90 degree, 90% humidity months).
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Andy Birko wrote:
John A wrote:
If I had to make a classical out of one log - it would be made out of walnut.


Can you bend Cedar? Seems like that would be a good choice for a one log guitar.

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27979
But you would need something harder for the fingerboard and bridge at least. Black walnut does sound good for a one log guitar. A little soft for fingerboards, but certainly better than cedar. And lighter than maple, for a better soundboard.

Maple does sound like a pretty good choice too, since it's plenty hard enough for the parts that take a beating, but not super heavy either. Might not sound that great, but I'd definitely be curious to hear what it's like. Columbia isn't that far from here, so maybe I could even hear it in person sometime :)

Oh, and 3/4 piece plates sound fine to me. Pretty rare to find trees big enough for 2 piece plates around these parts.
Author:  paw300 [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
awesome. i am so glad i joined this site you all have already been a great help. i'll keep this update as my progress comes along and more questions arise. chocobolo, thanks for the cedar link: definitely a future project, and i'm in kc all the time so we could make that a reality.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Hi Paul, I mill and air dry tens of thousand board feet of wood every year for use in my guitars. With that said, i recomend that if you are drying your maple in a closet that you keep a fan on it for good air circulation during the drying process which will take at least a year per inch thickness on the wood to dry. Maple has tight pores that hinders drying compared to alot of wood with larger pores so the fan will help there.
Author:  John A [ Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
I am curious as to the purpose and what you want to prove if anything -

Quote:
i consider myself a dedicated, foolish, amateur luthier and have set out to build an classical acoustic guitar from a log completely by hand


Do you play classical now ? Why just one log ? Are you trying to stick to local woods, or just to say that you built this from the mulch dump ?
The reason I ask, is that there may be other sources for different types of wood out there, possibly in the same dump where you got the maple.

Quote:
can wood be stained using fire ashes like with a stencil? is a tin can, lightbulb bending iron gonna be good enough for ?maple?


Why not use a regular stain off the shelf ? If you are staying away from buying anything ? - then you can also use coffee grinds, which I am sure you can find in the same mulch dump. Why a tin can for bending ? Your tin can will bend before the maple does. Looking for a low cost or recycled way of making a bender ? Exhaust pipe from a car can be found at any autoparts store, or junk yard if that is your preference. Then find a way to heat it - either with a $9.00 propane torch or a grill lighter. You can also bend using a chimney tube on a grill or smoker.

So what the the purpose again ?
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
I say go for it! 4 piece back and top is just fine. You may have difficulty with bending flat sawn sides however but it's doable. Keep a photo diary, I'd love to see it. Especially the part of preparing a log with no power tools.
Author:  paw300 [ Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
thanks all, moved the planks from closet to living room, lot more circulated though humidity is still high b/c haven't used the a/c very much this summer. john a: not trying to prove anything except that i can do it (sure the grunt work is much needed exercise anyway), yes i can play some classical, the one log is the original plan from a year ago and i'm sticking with it, the ashes are meaningful to me (nothing gross though), and i would use tobacco, black walnut husks, or even some of this red ozark dirt before using a stain off the shelves, but not b/c of the money, but b/c at least to me it would seem a little more natural/traditional. i'll probably upgrade to blowtorch bending iron whenever i get to that part. 5 of hopefully only 8 boards cut.
Author:  DennisK [ Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Sounds like fun. I don't like canned stains and finishes either. Shellac flakes for me, and maybe I'll try coffee and tea stains sometime too. The walnut husks sound like a good idea too. Got a tree right in the back yard that makes tons of them every year :)

As for a bending iron, I can attest to the usability of an exhaust pipe and electric charcoal starter. Mine is a 3 inch, fairly thick walled pipe. The heat does seem to be a little bit uneven (or maybe it's just my application of pressure), but I managed to get the sides close enough to the pattern to glue up without a mould. Just about ready to attach the back right now, but my camera is loaned out until tonight, so here's the most recent shot I have:
Attachment:
Sides.jpg

I think it came out to about $15 for the charcoal starter, nuts, bolts, and L brackets to attach it to a scrap of wood. Pipe was free from the scrap bin at a muffler shop, and already good length so I didn't even have to cut it :) A propane torch would probably work just as well for a heat source.
Author:  Quine [ Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Hey Paw...nice to see another Missouri guy on here
Good luck with the project.
Author:  Aerith [ Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
From my own little experience I would say (like others):

Mapple is not quite the best would to start working with if you're a beginner but still possible.
Making the whole guitar out of maple, why not, even if most wouldn't do it I guess, but make sure your wood is quarter saw AND dry: that's one of the very basic thing when making an instrument. if not you might end up making your life a lot more difficult than necessary.

Wish you good luck with your project, I think you'll need it.
Author:  John A [ Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Paw - what dimensions are you cutting your wood ?
What will you do with the time the wood gets cut and is dry enough to build with ?

Good luck by the way -
Author:  truckjohn [ Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: guitar from log (no power tools), and a million qusetions
Hardwoods for tops.... It will work -- won't come apart if you do your part..... If you decide to do a hardwood top -- you may want to do a Steel String build... More energy to drive the top... Otherwise, it may come out more quiet and drummy than you really want....

On the maple -- if it is straight, plain grained -- you shouldn't have trouble bending it. It will be fairly compliant on the bender....

On the top...

If you are up for the challenge -- consider finding a good 2x4 and splitting it out for proper grain orientation, then sawing and jointing 2x4 slices..... You end up with a Spruce top that you recovered from the dumpster....

I have 2 16 piece tops that I made this way for Jointing Practice... Haven't had the courage to use them... but I am getting closer and closer....

I also have a 6-pc Tenor Guitar top I made this way... The whole instrument except the Fretboard and Bridge are going to be made out of Dunnage/Dumpster scraps.... (Just got the neck blank glued up the other day... This neck started life as a shelf board, but I found it broken in the dump bin... Sapele I think...)

Best of luck with your creation! It sounds like a really fun adventure.

Be sure to post lots of pix....

Thanks
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