I use Bostik Top Coat for all of my machined surfaces - table saw, jointer tables, band saw table, etc. I also use it on my spring steel slats and no rust!
![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
Chuck
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Side Bending mess - what is it http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=28249 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | segovia [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Side Bending mess - what is it |
Hi I just bent my fist side of Cherry, I sandwiched the side between some damp wrapping paper. What is all this black stuff ? It's not burnt. Regards John |
|
| Author: | jayluthier [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I've had the same experience with blackwood. It's tannen. You can remove it with a mild solution of oxalic acid (available from a paint store). Just mix up a mild solution and wet the wood with it, brush with a stiff brush and rinse. That method worked great for me recentily. OR..you can lightly sand the wood and remove the stain. It's pretty much just on the surface (at least that was my experience).. Jay |
|
| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
John: Looks like it is scorched to me. You should be able to sand or scrape to clean up the side. Tom |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Hi Its not scorched, it is on the inside which was the furthest away from the blanket, the outside is not as bad however there is some staining which is quite deep - it won't sand or scrape so its a write off. Hopefully I can find out what it is on the second piece so when I order another set it won't happen again. It has to be either my slats of the brown wrapping paper, my slats had a bit of rust on them, how do you keep them clean and stop them from getting rusty ? John |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
jayluthier wrote: I've had the same experience with blackwood. It's tannen. You can remove it with a mild solution of oxalic acid (available from a paint store). Just mix up a mild solution and wet the wood with it, brush with a stiff brush and rinse. That method worked great for me recentily. OR..you can lightly sand the wood and remove the stain. It's pretty much just on the surface (at least that was my experience).. Jay I'll order some of the acid, but I think it is too deep. Its worth a try though. Thanks John |
|
| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Cherry wood contains tannin. You probably used tap water that has iron in it for your bending. The iron reacts with the tannin causing the black stains. Next time use distilled water. Same thing can happen if you use tap water to mix hide glue. I keep a gallon of distilled water in the shop to use for that reason. |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Sounds good to me, I have some distilled water I'll try it on the spare side that I have left Thanks John |
|
| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I haven't found a way to keep the spring steel slats from rusting. I tried painting them with high heat enamel... Bad mistake. I don't recommend it.The paint softens up when it gets hot. I use aluminum foil to protect the sides from iron staining. |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Daniel Minard wrote: I haven't found a way to keep the spring steel slats from rusting. I tried painting them with high heat enamel... Bad mistake. I don't recommend it.The paint softens up when it gets hot. I use aluminum foil to protect the sides from iron staining. Yep, tin foil as we call it here will be included on the next bend, I wonder if a thin coat of Camellia oil would be ok for the slats ? John |
|
| Author: | TonyKarol [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
it almost looks like rust stains to me (first time I used my new spring steel slats years back I only used parchment paper as the wrap, with maple .. had some nasty stains that looked kinda like yours) .... use foil to wrap the side, and almost no water (distilled) BTW - I never had this problem when bending cherry |
|
| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I use AL house flashing for slats and have never had any problems like this. But then again I've never bent cherry. Tom |
|
| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I've used both aluminum & galvanized flashing. Both work fine, but take on kinks after time. I do prefer the spring steel. Aluminum will turn unprotected Koa sides a sickly shade of green. |
|
| Author: | Pat Redmiles [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Looks like the moisture leached some iron out of the slats and stained the wood. Definitely try aluminum foil. Any kind of paper will probably do the same thing. |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Hi I managed to bend side two last night, I used foil and distilled water. There is a significant difference in the outcome as you can see. Some slight tannin is showing in one area but I am confident that will clean. I think however these are for the scrap bin as number one is beyond cleanup. Thanks John |
|
| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
John, Take Jay's advise and get the Oxcylic acid, you will be amazed at how well it works. I had worse staining than you show on a set of Red Oak sides. In less than three minutes after applying the oxcylic acid the black was completely removed. Steve |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
StevenWheeler wrote: John, Take Jay's advise and get the Oxcylic acid, you will be amazed at how well it works. I had worse staining than you show on a set of Red Oak sides. In less than three minutes after applying the oxcylic acid the black was completely removed. Steve Its on order via eBay, I'll let you know how I get on. Its not in trash yet Thanks John |
|
| Author: | Bob Shanklin [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I find that stainless Shim In a Can is fantastic for slats http://catalog.daemar.com/viewitems/shim-in-a-can/stainless-steel-shim-in-a-can? . Never a worry about staining with this stuff. Bob |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Hi Bob Fantastic, I wonder if it is available in the UK ? What thickness do you use ? John |
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Are the slats blued spring steel or did the stainless turn black. If it is Stainless, you found some serious tannin , if you have Blued steel you may have a chemical reaction from the chlorine in your water with the blued steel or the tannin . Don't use the paper . If you do need a barrier , use alum foil but do not wrap just fold in half and allow some open end for water vapor to escape . Also don't use a lot of water. Too much water is not a good thing. You are better to use just a small amount . I do most bending on the dry side. |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Hi John blued spring steel, the second side wasn't too bad. Another lesson learned I think. John |
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I know a few people that painted the blued steel with grill paint. I think covering the wood with foil may help. As Todd Stock pointed out , it is a reaction not unlike letting a nail on somthing wet. The acid in the paper causes the reaction with the iron ions. |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
Bob's suggestion looks like an option for the future http://catalog.daemar.com/viewitems/shi ... m-in-a-can? John |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I received my Oxalic Acid today, any idea what quantity of powder to water I should use ? John |
|
| Author: | ChuckG [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I use Bostik Top Coat for all of my machined surfaces - table saw, jointer tables, band saw table, etc. I also use it on my spring steel slats and no rust! Chuck |
|
| Author: | segovia [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Side Bending mess - what is it |
I thought of Top Coat but apparently its not available in the UK, and there are restrictions on shipping from the US. Good idea though John |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|