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for the Diablo blade. Works on any table saw and requires no stabilizers. Great looking lamination AND it looks good enough to eat.
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| Need advice on the best tool for the job please http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27934 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
This bar of purfling stock has about $200 invested in it. Its about 27" long, 1.75" wide and 7/8" thick. I intend to bond black fiber to the 7/8" side before cutting (all of my intended uses have black fiber (at least) on one side and I am hoping that it will help stabilize it. Question is, what is the best tool for the job? What kind of blade? Given the expense of the bar, I want to getit right the first time. I'm thinking bandsaw (small) with one of those diamond studded blades. Do they make "wire" blades? Thanks for your help! Mike |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Those 7 1/4", thin kerf, 40 tpi, Freud Diablo blades are pretty sweet. That's the best that I have. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
douglas ingram wrote: Those 7 1/4", thin kerf, 40 tpi, Freud Diablo blades are pretty sweet. That's the best that I have. Do they require stabilizers? And will they work on a standard table saw? This idea did cross my mind, but I would also need a zero clearance plate. Are you talking about this? http://www.toolbarn.com/freud-d0740x.html Mike |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Mike that is a sweet looking purfling bar, congratulations! Best of wishes as you cut it up. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
| for the Diablo blade. Works on any table saw and requires no stabilizers. Great looking lamination AND it looks good enough to eat.
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
The 7 1/4" Diablo blades don't need a stabilizer. They cut a pretty fine kerf & leave a smooth edge... As long as your ripping fence is parallel to the blade. Yup... They work great on a tablesaw with a standard 5/8 arbour. Mine is on the tablesaw all the time, unless I need the deeper cut of a 10" blade. Get the red teflon coated Diablo. They are much better than the plain steel ones. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
OK, so I see none of you reccomended the bandsaw for this. I have a Jet Super Saw JWSS-10LFR. Now trying to locate a zero clearance insert. Looks like the Rockler Phenolic kit (you rout out the shape) is the best I have found so far... Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Filippo Morelli wrote: The 7 1/4 Diablo and zero insert. Otherwise I'm thinking laser  Filippo I thought I might just use my teeth on this one ...  Oh, I did check Peachtree, did not see my model listed And, I checked, you could stack 30 of those blades across the width of that bar. Very nice!! |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
i'm late here, but I use a 1/4", 12 - 14 tooth or a 14 - 18 tooth variable bi-metal blade on my 10" bandsaw. They work great. Smooth cut, some blowout, but very little at the bottom edge. I made a zero clearance insert, and put it in backwards, so the slot is on the back side of the blade. The blades I use are the Lenox bi-metal blades. I buy them locally, and they are welded to length at the vendor. I used it for my little block marquetry. Attachment: P1020522 (Large).JPG This piece was cut without a strip glued to it.
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Blue tape may solve the minor blowout. Filippo Spooky... I was thinking the same thing about blue tape. The fellow that explained how to build this purfling bar used .3 mm maple veneer glued to both the top and bottom. That seemed like an expensive and wasteful way to accomplish the job to me. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
I use the thinnest gauge - .014" (0.36mm) 14 TPI Bandsaw blade for cutting inlay material such as that. Then again I don't own a table saw but I suspect a diablo blade will give a slightly better finish. The thin kerf bandsaw blades are pretty good though. |
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| Author: | senunkan [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Just wondering if any hand tools would work for the job? Like a dozuki saw or a ryoba? They give pretty thin kerf too. I can imagine that saw drifting might be a problem though... |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
I used to use my bandsaw exclusively for all cutting, seeing as I had no tablesaw for years. Then I inherited my father-in-law's old Beaver table saw, its small and the fence is crap, but it works. Anyway, I have the Freud 7 1/4" 40 tpi in there and I have to say that the surface of the cut face is smoother than the finest cut I've ever been able to achieve off of the bandsaw, even with thin kerf fine tooth blades. I've been able to cut some extremely thin wood slices with this blade. Scary thin, actually. If I were cutting that block, I'd surface the first face, make a cut, surface the face again, cut, repeat. The one cut face will require only minor surface prep. Even if you choose to not use this blade on the log, the blade is very inexpensive and worth a try. You definitely will use it somewhere and it will not be money wasted. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
i can't believe it! you guy's use a 7 1/2" freud blade to build guitars with?!!!!! so do i. |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
alan stassforth wrote: i can't believe it! you guy's use a 7 1/2" freud blade to build guitars with?!!!!! so do i. If you want to use a table saw for lutherie, The 7 1/4" diablo is the way to go. I suspect that most builders use this blade. The zero clearance fence is essential. I picked up three inserts on ebay awhile ago and they've been great. I don't don't use stabilizers. |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
A zero clearance insert is easy to make... cut a piece of ply or solid wood to shape & thin it to fit in the recess. You can fine tune it to be perfectly level with the table top using masking tape shims. (Stew Mac's binding tape works great too.) Place it in the recess, turn the saw on & crank the blade up 'till it cuts a perfect slot... Remember to hold the insert down firmly with a stick. I also use my fret slotting blade when ripping bindings & such. Super thin kerf & very little waste. It's only good for thin (under 1/8") material & you gotta go slow... With no set on the teeth, it gums up in oily wood. Keep it clean & it works great. Douglas is right... True the edge, make a cut, then true the edge before making the next cut. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Best economy would be a waterjet, but I'm going to bet that's not on your list of options under consideration. The waterjet could come out at a clean cut with a 0.02-0.03 kerf. You could get close to that, 0.03-0.04" clean, on a CNC mill with a properly set up slitting saw blade. Laser probably isn't suitable; it might be able to blow through but you'd have some crispy burnt edges. The 'thin kerf' tablesaw blades are huge by comparison to bandsaw blades. I might have missed something, but the thinnest blade I saw from Freud was still in the 80-thou range which is more than one strip turned to sawdust for each you yield. I know you can get a fine finish at just a bit over 0.04" with Laguna's high end bandsaw blades, and I assume you can match that with something Lenox makes. If you use a power feed, you can get a truly smooth finish from a bandsaw with half the losses of a table saw. The bandsaw is harder to set up optimally, but a 1" cut isn't demanding. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Mike, I'm using a Lennox Diemaster 2 blade 14-18 tpi variable with a zero clearance insert and it cuts an .080" thick slice of my purfling to .070" wide strips. Works like a champ. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Michael.N. wrote: I use the thinnest gauge - .014" (0.36mm) 14 TPI Bandsaw blade for cutting inlay material such as that. Then again I don't own a table saw but I suspect a diablo blade will give a slightly better finish. The thin kerf bandsaw blades are pretty good though. Michael, what blade is that. I haven't been able to find the really narrow kerf blades. I like the bi-metal blades, and they have other uses, but they have a standard kerf. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
That bar does look rather tasty, does it not?  I am leaning towards that Diablo... 0.06" kerf is not bad at all. The bandsaw blades I have looked at (smaller ones) have the teeth going side to side. I assume this is to assist with clearing the dust. The lower TPIs seem to be on the bigger blades and those teeth are normally aligned with the blade. I was a bit concerned that the smaller blades would put lateral forces on the bar that could cause breakage at glue joints. I have a few highend (small) Laguna blades at home, I will check them out. Every repeating pattern block has 30-plus glue joints. It has been quite a challenge getting to this stage. Regardless of which saw I use, a zero clearance insert is a must. Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Hey Mike I have an idea - how about you be the first one on the OLF to buy a Jointmaker Pro? I mean, it's $1,200, but I'm sure you'll find other uses for it in building guitars (and we'd like to know what they are, so we can live vicariously through your experiences). As for the twelve hundo, rest assured the kerf savings on the $200 Taj Mah Purfling will only be the first of many savings!  Filippo (p.s. Let us know what you actually plan to do ...) Well, not going to use the JointMaker Pro, I bet it is worthless for doing long pieces. I will be getting one of those diablo blades however. What I have decided to do is use my 4 tpi, 3/8", (0.03") kerf bandsaw blade from Laguna. Its not a resaw blade in that is does have some tip deflection side to side. But it is very small. I fashioned a zero clearance insert for the bandsaw. I also glued a strip of 0.02 black fiber to the side, so I will be ready to cut tonight. As nothing much has gone according to plan on this sub-project, I doubt tonight will be any different. But here is to hoping! Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Well. most everything came out just fine! The luguna blade did an excellent job, and cut a very smooth surface. Of course, I spent some time getting the driftmaster fence set up just so... However. like I said, I was certain to learn something and I did. Never let a delicate purfling bar hang over the edge of the cutting table.  All is well and was easily repaired. Mike |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
Bob Garrish wrote: Best economy would be a waterjet, but I'm going to bet that's not on your list of options under consideration. The waterjet could come out at a clean cut with a 0.02-0.03 kerf. You could get close to that, 0.03-0.04" clean, on a CNC mill with a properly set up slitting saw blade. Laser probably isn't suitable; it might be able to blow through but you'd have some crispy burnt edges. The 'thin kerf' tablesaw blades are huge by comparison to bandsaw blades. I might have missed something, but the thinnest blade I saw from Freud was still in the 80-thou range which is more than one strip turned to sawdust for each you yield. I know you can get a fine finish at just a bit over 0.04" with Laguna's high end bandsaw blades, and I assume you can match that with something Lenox makes. If you use a power feed, you can get a truly smooth finish from a bandsaw with half the losses of a table saw. The bandsaw is harder to set up optimally, but a 1" cut isn't demanding. The Diablo 7 1/4" are around .055" thickness. At least the ones I have. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
U r correct, that diablo finishing blade is .059, but still 0.03" bigger than my laguna bs blade. That purfling bar has well over $200 invested in it, kerf matters here! More importantly, the laguna blade cut with at least a 220 finish. I was amazed. I did not have to finish the cut side, just glued another 0.02" fiber sheet to it. Cut was 0.1". |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need advice on the best tool for the job please |
U r correct, that diablo finishing blade is .059, but still 0.03" bigger than my laguna bs blade. That purfling bar has well over $200 invested in it, kerf matters here! More importantly, the laguna blade cut with at least a 220 finish. I was amazed. I did not have to finish the cut side, just glued another 0.02" fiber sheet to it. Cut was 0.1". |
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