Laurent:
You said that you could use PVA glue? Do you mean titebond?
Binding still has me spooked.
Bob
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| Glueing plastic biding http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27900 |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Glueing plastic biding |
Hi - I am about to glue some plastic binding, the edges of the binding look a bit rough - should I leave them a bit proud and sand them down after it is glued ? Thanks John |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
do you mean the edge that sets in the bottom of the channel are rough? Or the outside edges? I glue them on with Duco or Weldon which melts the plastic a bit (acetone) and that will help with any roughness at the bottom of the channel. I leave them just a TINY bit proud and flush them up with a scraper. IMO that looks better than sanding them. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
Hi It looks like both edges of the binding are rough, likely to have been caused by sawing it to size. I'll leave it 1/32 proud. What type of glue is weldon & duco - I need to find an equivalent UK make? John |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
I am doing a re-top which needs plastic bindings, so this is very timely. I was surprised at how rough the edges were, when the bindings arrived in the mail. Not meaning to hi-jack this thread, but is there another adhesive that works well? I haven't found a Canadian supplier of Duco cement & it can't be shipped cross border. My favourite scraper smoothed the rough edges nicely, so that's not a concern. CA seems to work fine on the test glue-up I did... |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
I was wondering about using a scraper on plastic, thanks John |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
you just want to use an acetone based glue. I am sure a hobby shop can help you zero in on the brand in your country. I am sure the model makers have something they use. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
Is acetone the same as polyurethane http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/2/prod ... -22067.htm |
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| Author: | AlexanderLou3 [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
No. There are lots of articles about duco. I hear its hit or miss when it comes to quality, but since I needed it quick and didn't want to pay s/h for special glue from stewmac or lmi, I decided to try it. This was for celluloid bindings to a black fiber purfling strip the same height. I applied a layer to both surfaces and let it dry and then glued and stuck them together the second coat, just like the instructions said. Stuck fine on the guitar but I don't trust it all that much and based on some opinions I've read, the plastic binding glue that the luthier shops stock might be better. The excess binding/purfling I had cut off I easily separated. Some people mix a little more acetone into their duco, which would slightly dissolve the celluloid binding more, which should give more adhesion. Note that plastic bindings are and require different glue than celluloid bindings You should also be able to make a good glue by dissolving a bit of the binding material (cellulouid only) in acetone and using the paste. This is also used for filling the slight gap where the two ends come together if its not perfect. It should be noted that I have not personally tried this for glue though. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
CA works very well for ABS and celluloid material. Another method is to wipe the bindings with acetone and use PVA gue. 1/32" proud is too much, a few thous is all you want. A sharp scraper is so much faster and pleasant than sanding. |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
Thanks Laurent. I was hoping CA would work, just because its familiar & easy. I'll play around with dissolving some binding material in acetone too. BTW... To scrape the rough edges, I cut a kerf (using the tablesaw) in a two foot long piece of 1X4 & slid the binding into the kerf. I made the kerf just deep enough that I could scrape down to the wood. Keeps the edge straight & square. |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
A tip I've used in the past is to cut an appropriate sized circle in a piece of 1/4" or thinner plywood, say a 4" circle in a 6" x 6" piece, then glue a 6" x 6" backer piece on it. Coil your binding and place it into what is now a 4" circular recess. I then lightly run it over my 6" stationary belt sander to smooth and square the edge of the binding. You must do this lightly to avoid melting or in the case of cellulose, a spontaneous ignition of the binding damhikt. |
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| Author: | Michael [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gluing plastic biding |
I believe Duco is the same stuff I used to glue plastic model airplanes and cars as a kid (smells the same). I love the stuff. It's kinda' sticky when using but I find I don't need binding tape. I just wipe the glue on about 8 inches of binding and hold down for a short time then on to the next section and cleanup is so much easier than super-glue. Just my opinion and experience. Michael |
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| Author: | unkabob [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
Laurent: You said that you could use PVA glue? Do you mean titebond? Binding still has me spooked. Bob
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| Author: | CraigSz [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
AlexanderLou3 wrote: Another method is to wipe the bindings with acetone and use PVA gue. I have used this method on all 3 of my instruments and have not had a problem . #1 is 3 years old now. Iused plastic tortoise-shell binding and titebond original. regards Craig. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
put the binding in a vise, with a fine file smooth out and slightly back bevel, move it along the vise doing short sections. cut the end of the binding square. start at the heel. glue about 8 inches, and press it into place, securing it with masking tape, pressing and wiping the duco glue with your fingers, wipe the glue off on your pants, or better yet a rag. overlap your next 8 inch glue run wit da last. keep pressing the glue out as you tape it down. slide your fingers along the binding , and hold the end until you get it taped. press on it a lot, down and in. when you finish one side, square up the next binding with the one you installed. start there with the same procedure. keep pressing down and in. cut the neck ends with a fine back saw,(should be hidden by the fretboard). i use duco, but lmi sells a better glue. never had probs with duco. lmi sells special binding tape which is stronger and better, but if i don't have any, i use regular masking tape, just double it up in the waist area. oh, before you begin, tear off a lot of masking tape in 2-3 inch lengths, and stick em to da edge of your workbench so you can quickly grab them. also, when you pull off the tape after one day drying, pull it perpindicular with the top or back. if you pull up, you'll pull da grain up too! and, when you tape, leave one end not taped down, so you can grab it easier, unless you have long fingernails. hope this helps. good luck! p.s.- your fingers will be sore after you do this. p.s.#2-fillyour gaps with the finish you will be using with a little paintbrush, again and again till its level. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
The Duco works fine. However it needs to cure for at least a day, possibly two, before scraping the binding as it softens the material. With CA you need to dry fit the binding/purfling first and then wick thin CA. Sealing the top end grain (and the top edges) with shellac is mandatory before using CA, and greatly helps in pulling the tape without pulling wood fibres. 3M 233+ AKA green masking tape is the best for the job IMHO. It's real easy not to get gaps with ABS or celluloid bindings, it conforms easily to the compound curves of the guitar. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
I should start another post but I need to ask the question Does plastic binding cause any issues when I am sanding in preparation for final finish, it looks like it could get scratched ? Should I ditch the plastcic and go for wood ? John |
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| Author: | Michael [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
It depends on the look you want. Plastic is easier but it does not come in curly maple. Michael |
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| Author: | AlexanderLou3 [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
I don't find plastic easier. You don't have to bend it, but that's not hard anyway. The special prep to use duco was equally as much of a hassle. You can scrape plastic or celluloid just fine. You'll be sanding it along with the sides and will get rid of any marks. It will sand/polish up just as it looked before binding/scraping, etc. I find it no more prone to scratches than any other binding material. Scrape away! |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
ABS or celluloid IS easier than any wood. For the same 1/16" thickness it conforms to curves and bends in all directions without force. A bit of heat will help it do so in any case. There's no special prep with plastic if CA is used, it is as fast as can be and can be scraped literally minutes after being glued. It also melts the material so well fitted joints becomes invisible. Again the trick is to tape everything dry, without gaps, and wick thin CA on purfs and bindings. Tortoise celluloid will readily show sanding or scraping marks under finish, so finish prep requires a bit of extra care. I either scrape the bindings with a fine scraper (a razor bade would do) or carefully sand to 400. All IME, of course. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
http://www.airfix.com/humbrol-paints-an ... ivesglues/ Is this the glue to use for plastic binding to wood? J |
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| Author: | John Hale [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
Thought I'd bump this as I'm coming to a similar point |
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| Author: | segovia [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
I managed to get Weldon 16 in the UK so I think my problem is resolved for the time being. I am also going to try gel superglue at some point in the future. John |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glueing plastic biding |
if you're worried about the glue, you could do a test run on a scrap piece of wood when you're checking your depth of cut. let dry for a day, and see if it sticks. |
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