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can't think of what to do next...
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27891		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  can't think of what to do next...
I need some help... I have 2 planks of mahogany (enough to make two acoustic guitar necks), some scrap pieces of ebony (enough for a bridge), and some tools and will probably get a drill press. Now the problem is, I can't think of what to build! I will get the heavier woods in Taiwan if I can even if I need to process things by hand, because shipping+customs will almost double the prices on most things. I have built two acoustics so far, and I am just wondering, should I go build a third acoustic, or should I just build an electric? I lost my radius dish so if I go acoustic I will have to go buy another set, but that's a lot of money +shipping and I know you can make your own but I wonder if my lam trimmer will die from being run that long, unless I like take a curved bottom plane and just do it by hand (drill holes at marked depth so I know when to stop) and finish with a random orbital sander. Electrics are simpler and I have not done a scratch build on an electric yet, but the hardware (pickup, tuners, bridges etc.) will most likely cost more than the wood.

I want my build to be sufficiently challenging but not cost an arm and a leg...
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
You don't have to buy another set of dishes. There are other ways to accomplish the same thing. Dishes are just easier.
You can cut ribs and lay thin ply over them. I know someone has pictures up of how they did just that.
Playing cards could be used to fill in between the body and a flat surface.
Do a barrel radius, curved side to side only.

Lots of ways to do it without buy dishes.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
how do I contour the rims without the dishes?
Author:  alan stassforth [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
hey tai. aren't there some lumber yards you could browse for decent wood there? i'm still working out jigs, bracing sizes, and everything else, and feel that for now i should just use decent wood fom a lumber yard for now, till i figure stuff out.
by the way, the gits i've made so far sound decent. the git i just finished has a aaa spruce top, and it sounds decent too.
maybe it'll open up. how about bamboo? i saw a git at a show that was made of bamboo. if the top wasn't made of bamboo, it would have sounded better.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
The problem in Taiwan isn't the lack of wood, but the fact that few people in Taiwan are willing to sell it to individuals (or at least someone who will buy less than a truckload). Taiwan has become a rather consumer-oriented society that a lot of the professional grade stuff isn't going to be carried by any major chain stores. It took me a long time before I even had a lead on one or two suppliers for wood in Taiwan. There is another expat to Taiwan who makes guitar who have the same problem, but he somehow managed to find cam clamps for only 6 dollars a piece.. I am getting a bunch.

Tools are not so bad... and even if they are not available its only a one time cost to buy them. For me buying wood from LMI is prohibitive unless it's small quantities such as fretboards or bridge blank.
Author:  DennisK [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
For ideas, my building list currently consists of a large variety of acoustic guitars, an ukulele made from scraps of guitar wood, 2 fiddles (one sitka spruce/bigleaf maple, one western red cedar/black walnut), 2 harp guitars, a bamboo pan flute, Native American flute, and on the "maybe some day" list, a non-guitar harp of some sort and viola da gamba.

I was entertaining the idea of an electric guitar for a while, but I couldn't think of enough advantage to doing it by hand to go to the trouble. Probably the best advantage to me would be to use a material other than wood for the body, because it seems such a waste of a tree's life when you really just need a heavy block of something :) That, and getting to cover it in inlays and paintings. An archtop might be worth the trouble though.

My shop is really tiny too, so the harp guitars will be a bit of a challenge.

I'm building without radius dishes, using the Cumpiano book method (spring the plates against the braces using a bunch of cam clamps).

Shipping to Taiwan is definitely a problem. Well, tops are a lot lighter weight than back/side sets. Maybe order one big shipment from somewhere that cuts them fairly thin, to keep the weight down even more? And then resaw lumberyard wood for backs and sides, since that's not as big a deal if they're flat sawn. And easier to replace if you snap a side. In that case, you'd definitely want a bandsaw instead of a drill press.

I have access to a drill press, but generally prefer drilling by hand anyway, for the quiet and safety of it. I just drilled my bridge, and it's not perfect, but plenty close enough. The neck bolt holes are the ones I'm really stressing over, since I don't have much wiggle room to get them wrong. Maybe I'll just use the drill press like a chicken :p
Author:  Darryl Young [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  can't think of what to do next...
Try building a resonator.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
You mean the holes for the inserts in a bolt on acoustic guitar neck? I did that by hand because the angle adjustment feature on my last drill press was rusted shut, so no way I could use the drill press for it. Came out ok, good thing is that the holes on the neck block can be enlarged to allow for the angle should the hole be not perfectly square, which was also done by hand.

As for back and side another OLF member in Taiwan gave me a supplier who have guitar back and side sets of indonesian rosewood (plantation grown indian rosewood) as well as a few others. Their prices are pretty low, and they sell tops too. The only problem is they do not like dealing over the internet or phone, and plus the last set I got from them were not color matched (the back and side were different shade) so I really need to make a trip and pick out the set myself, which I am sure they would not mind. However it's 30 dollars round trip to go there so if I went there I need to get more than one set...
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
You've built three already, so use one to make up a template.

http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=23 ... adius+dish

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/contourtool.html

Or use Graham's concept and make a board radiused side to side only.
Author:  alan stassforth [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
hey tai. aren't there some lumber yards you could browse for decent wood there? i'm still working out jigs, bracing sizes, and everything else, and feel that for now i should just use decent wood fom a lumber yard for now, till i figure stuff out.
by the way, the gits i've made so far sound decent. the git i just finished has a aaa spruce top, and it sounds decent too.
maybe it'll open up. how about bamboo? i saw a git at a show that was made of bamboo. if the top wasn't made of bamboo, it would have sounded better.
Author:  Robert Renick [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
Tai,
How about a trip to the States, Canada or Australia, perhaps one of the builders from the forum could host you as a foreign exchange student for a month or so while you build in their shop, you can do some shop work for them, perhaps help build a bench or some jigs in exchange for your stay. Then you can take advantage of the cheap wood that can be had. Then you can prepare your own parcel of goodies to mail back to yourself to help get around some of the customs.

Just a thought from reading your posts, seems your location adds to the already challenging task of building a guitar.

If you really can't think of what is next, then there are two answers, write a list of what needs to get done, or clean shop.

Good luck,
Rob
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
That might work, although I would prefer staying away from the US not because I don't want to but US has some very tough visa regulations and that is a battle in itself. However if someone in Europe (Visas are rather easy to get to Germany for example) or maybe Australia is willing to do this it would be a better solution. A friend told me about some luthier in Thailand who I would apprentice under, but I never heard anything about it from him anymore and I am starting to think he's just bluffing.
Author:  Robert Renick [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
I can imagine that many of the visa requirements can be more trouble then they are worth, but you can compare those challenges to those that are inherent in your current work situation. If you want to make it happen, I am sure you can, if you can build a guitar, then you can do most anything you set your mind too. Airfare will be a big factor, since that will be the big bite out your materials fund. Isn't Australia the closest option?

In terms of finding a host who is not bluffing, I think that it would be on the apprentice to show the effort and enthusiasm to make it happen, follow up with some calls, it can be an amazing adventure, and to return with a guitar, or even better, sell the guitar where you apprentice and use the money for materials to take home.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
comfyfoot wrote:

In terms of finding a host who is not bluffing, I think that it would be on the apprentice to show the effort and enthusiasm to make it happen, follow up with some calls, it can be an amazing adventure, and to return with a guitar, or even better, sell the guitar where you apprentice and use the money for materials to take home.


In the case of the luthier that the friend claims to know, I have no way of contacting them, and when I tried to ask him about it he gave me a dismissive answer.

I have made 2 guitars so far, but my attempt at selling them have been rather unsuccessful. Must be the market, because it seems people would drop 600 dollars on a plywood Takamine but wouldn't take my guitar even if I offered to give it away. I already know that building guitar is unlikely to break even because I mean, its hard to compete with people (like China) who are willing to work for pennies.

As for the situation with wood... its just difficult, but things are getting better as I discover suppliers. I still have to be able to resaw myself or contract that work out to someone else who have the tools... and pay money for the work. I have plans to move to Europe sometimes in the future depending on how things work out... and in that case I will just ship all my tools and stuff over there.. I just don't know if the 50/60hz thing is going to cause a problem, ignoring the voltage differences.
Author:  CWLiu [ Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
Good luck.
Author:  Quine [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
How about a Ukulele? You can get the top & back out of one neck blank and the neck & sides out of the other.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can't think of what to do next...
Quine wrote:
How about a Ukulele? You can get the top & back out of one neck blank and the neck & sides out of the other.


Thought of it... but I do not have a resaw and the blanks are flatsawn... not an issue for necks but might be for bending. I just ordered some back/side/top sets though... you know I am thinking maybe I should build a cutaway or something, with a smaller body... any recommendations for a smaller and thinner bodied cutaways? I might actually go with a Fender scale (25.5") too.
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