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How to make a very short guitar neck??
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Author:  Barny [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  How to make a very short guitar neck??
Hi.

I am currently in the process of designing and building a travel guitar and was wondering if there is a way to minimise the neck length? Personally, i would only really need up to the 12th fret of a guitar if i was usign it during travel so is there a way to reduce the fretboard to this length to minimise the overall guitar length?

I also plan to use a minimal sized body and make the guitar 'headless', placing the machine heads somewhere on the body to add to the minimal length.

Also any good websites with info on neck lengths and fret spacing etc would be very helpful.

Basically, please tell me everything you know about guitar necks!

Barny
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
There are two ways to minimize neck length. Reduce the scale length - the distance from the nut to the saddle - and join the neck to the body at a lower fret.
As long as scale length and proper fret spacing are observed you can design your guitar any way you want.
Twelve frets to the body is a very normal configuration.
Author:  Barny [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
Thanks for that but I'm not looking for 12 fret to body guitars. I am trying to find something with 12 frets total. This would tehnically still be a 12 fret to body guitar by without the higher frets to leave more room for a pickup or two to Be moved closer to the neck etc.
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
I've only given this a few minutes of thought but you might try to connect the bridge very near the tail of the guitar. The problem with a very short neck is that your strings are going to be very short. You need to move the bridge to get some of that string length back.

Once you move the bridge to such an unusual place, however you have to change the bracing so the major structural elements are near the bridge. An 'A' brace radiating out from the tail block and ending up on either side of the sound hole might work.

There's nothing really special about the neck itself. It's just a shorter version of a regular neck.

Good luck!
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
Barny wrote:
Thanks for that but I'm not looking for 12 fret to body guitars. I am trying to find something with 12 frets total. This would tehnically still be a 12 fret to body guitar by without the higher frets to leave more room for a pickup or two to Be moved closer to the neck etc.


When you say pickup or two I think electric. Are you looking to build an electric or an acoustic?
Author:  Tom West [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
From Barnys other post it looks like an electric.
Author:  unkabob [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
This sounds weird but could you mount the tuners on the tail block?

I have seen the Martin travel guitar but are there plans for a three quarter?

Bob :ugeek:
Author:  Barny [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
It would be an electric that i could simply plug into a small portable amp such as a roland microcube. I am basically just trying to make it as small as possible without ruining how the guitar plays.
Author:  martinedwards [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
I remember reading (a LONG time ago) that Anthrax's Scott Ian was SO much a rhythm guitarist that he had the frets pulled from some of his guitars above the 12th.

actually only having frets on the 1st 12 positions is no big deal, but doesn't shorten the neck any.

I DID see pics of a travel electric that was headless, and had the strings wrap around the bridge and run back into the body where the tuners were, making the total length of the instrument about 1 1/2" more than the scale length.

here we go!!

no. now that I look it's a piezo bridge, but you could fit regular magentic pups too.....

Image
Author:  martinedwards [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
so, Now that I re-read your original post are you wanting to ONLY have it from the 12th fret to the bridge?

think capo on the 12th......

then think bandsaw!!

just make it so the nut is there with a 12 and whatever" scale length.

or think 6 string mandolin?
Author:  Barny [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
Hi Martin! Thanks for that message on this and on the other forum. I myself am currently considering studying engineering at university after this project that i am doing next year for my A2 project. All i was saying regarding only needing 12 frets is that i only use up to the 12th fret most of the time really so surely i could cut out the higher frets to make the overall guitar length shorter?

Thinking about it now, to make this more cost affective, i would probably buy an electric guitar it good condition (from eg a car boot say) and then 'customise' it to make this a cheaper project. I am currently thinking of removing the headstock and incoroparting the tuners in the body. Also the issue is that i would need a portable amp to use an electric travel guitar which could defeat the whole point of a travel guitar. I need to somehow incorporate a headphone jack or mini speaker to make the guitar audible.

Also regarding making your own neck. Is this more hassle than its worth? And how would i go about this?

Barny
Author:  martinedwards [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
Barny wrote:
Hi Martin! Thanks for that message on this and on the other forum.


you're welcome!!

Quote:
I myself am currently considering studying engineering at university after this project that i am doing next year for my A2 project. All i was saying regarding only needing 12 frets is that i only use up to the 12th fret most of the time really so surely i could cut out the higher frets to make the overall guitar length shorter?

if you are talking about using the area from the nut to the octave then you need the full length of the string. that's just not negociable.

Quote:
Thinking about it now, to make this more cost affective, i would probably buy an electric guitar it good condition (from eg a car boot say) and then 'customise' it to make this a cheaper project. I am currently thinking of removing the headstock and incoroparting the tuners in the body. Also the issue is that i would need a portable amp to use an electric travel guitar which could defeat the whole point of a travel guitar. I need to somehow incorporate a headphone jack or mini speaker to make the guitar audible.


doable, but will modding a ready made neck get you the marks? check with your tutor. as to a headphones output, I'm making an electric cello for my #2 son and for pickups I'm planning piezos under the saddles running to the preamp from a silent guitar (do a google) it has two outputs, one to a regular amp, one to a headphones socket. for your project you could build a simple amplifier into the guitar. there are a million schematics on the net. another option would be the likes of a zoom 505 multifx pedal. small, sounds not too shabby and feeds headphones. zoom 505s go for about £15 on evilbay.......

Quote:
Also regarding making your own neck. Is this more hassle than its worth? And how would i go about this?


not to me!!

start with a block of maple or mahogany. use a router or a vertical mill to cut a slot for the truss rod. for a first build I'd suggest getting a ready slotted fretboard from the likes of stewmac.com. glue it on to to trap the truss rod. (standard PVA wood glue) then carve it to neck shape using a spoke shave, the curve at the top of a belt sander an a load of elbow grease!! I can rough carve a neck in about an hour, the fine tuning to make it smooth and pretty takes a bit of time after that!!

as to COULD you, well, I have a 1st form pupil who at 12 years old, today took home a Les Paul that he built from scratch.

this is it before it's final setup

Image
Author:  Barny [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
The idea of an integrated amp seems good as i would need an external amp otherwise. I have no idea how i would do this though? Looks like im gonna have to stick with a full length neck then which is not a problem.
Author:  Barny [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
One more thing. In terms of cost what did for example the les paul style guitar in the pic you posted end up costing to build? Luckily i will be using the school workshop which has a relatively good number of tools and machines that i otherwise wouldnt have. So im using this opportunity to make a guitar as these tools are now available. The idea of a removable neck also really interests me. Would the guitar still be strong enough.

With regards to making a neck, i know a guitar is a 'precision instrument' in the sense that everything has to be perfect for it to play well and im worried that i would mess something up even very minutely, that would affect the playability of the guitar when finished. I am very new to all of this so as i said any info on practically any luthier based techniques etc is well received!
Author:  martinedwards [ Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
a headphones amp isn't as big job. Definitely within the scope of A-level, infact I'd be happy to let a GCSE pupil go for this.

heres the schematic that came up first when I googled guitar headphone amp schematic

Two trannies, an opamp chip and a handfull of resistors and capacitors......

Image

cost for the LP was around the £200 mark. all the wood except the fretboard was scrounged for free.......... infact I need to call my friendly neighbourhood shopfitting factory for another scrounging trip........

removable neck?

ever seen a strat? ot a tele? duh

it depends on HOW removable you make it. Taylor acoustics are pretty easy to get the neck off of, strats take a couple of minutes with a screw driver. some barrel bolts would make it more removable as the screws in & out of the wood will eventually do a load of damage.

as far as precision of the neck is concerned, the frets need to be correctly spaced. other than that it's a freehand carving exercise.
Author:  Barny [ Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to make a very short guitar neck??
Ok any chance you could get me some free wood?

Also that schematic looks quite complicated really? Any way i could incorporate an internal amp without needing headphones? Because i would want to use the travel guitar to play out loud so other peopel could hear it.
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