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Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27828		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Corky Long [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
For those of you who pore fill with epoxy (Zpoxy for me on the latest).

How do you deal with the light amber tint? I find I have to be EXTREMELY careful when sanding back, to ensure that I've sanded uniformly - or I get a blotchy appearance which looks like an "instant tanning job" gone extremely bad. It's particularly challenging on hte mahogany neck. What I've been doing is 1) Apply (with Nitrile gloves, smooth and thin application), 2) overnight to dry, 3) sand back with 220, then 400, 4) notice that, regardless of how careful I am, it's snding through to wood in some places, holding the pigment in others. A test wash of shellac confirms that the grain retains the "pop" where the epoxy is still there, and looks dull where it isn't.

Anyone have a great idea on how to mitigate?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
From everything I've read, Zpoxy has an amber tint. You can either sand back to wood all over to reduce the effect of it, or use it and do a 50/50 wash with Zpoxy and alcohol to even out the splotches. If you don't want amber, use System III. Just stuff I've read here at OLF.
Author:  mhammond [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
The thinned "wash" coat at the very end of filling is primarily to even out the color variations. Keep goin'....
Author:  ChuckG [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
Corky,
I have used Zpoxy on my last 15 guitars and I always sand back to the wood (320P), being VERY careful to leave the pores filled. I always apply two "fills" sanding each pne back as described above. I do the first application very early in the morning, wait 6 hours, sand, then apply the second coat. No amber tinting and the pores get filled nicely.

Chuck
Author:  alan stassforth [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
hey everybody.
can anyone tell me why you use this z-poxy for pore filling?
i've never used it, and probably never will, because it's probably nasty stuff to work with.
if da wood needs filling, use old fashion filler, or better yet, just keep putting on the finish and sand it down.
i'm staying away from all that caustic stuff.
nitro?, sub it out.
water base rocks.
just venting a little. i can't work now because of a bad shoulder, and i'm frustrated, and bored.
Author:  Parser [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
I always had the same splotch issues with Z-poxy, even with doing the 50/50 wash coat. I could get it good enough to where players would pretty much never notice it - but I could always spot it right away.

I'm also not a big fan of epoxies - if I can avoid using them, I will.

I'm in the process of trying out LMI's waterbased pore filler. So far I'm very happy with it. It goes on easily, is non-toxic, and after 1 sealer coat of shellac, there is no apparent unevenness of color. I'll be spraying Target's EM6000 water based lacquer on top...should look pretty good...!

Trev
Author:  Foster [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
I apply full strength wait 24 hours then lightly scuff with 320 dry paper. Apply another coat full strength and scuff with 400 wet paper. Lastly I put a 50 / 50 thin coat then scuff with scotch brite before vinyl sealer. Then starty applying the nitrocellouse at least three wet coats. Sand back with 600 wet paper with Naptha. Repeat until there are no shiny spots. then 1000 wet, 1500 wet and buff with medium cut compound then fine cut.
Author:  Parser [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
I'm sure it is Todd - maybe we can blame it on the Maryland weather??

I'll post some pics & a report if I get some good results from the LMI waterbased stuff. This guitar has makore back and sides - I'm trying the mahogany colored filler on this.

Trev
Author:  alan stassforth [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
aaahhh! i get it now. probably brings out the rays and little gold flecks when they're there.
i guess i'll try it someday.
thanks for da info.
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore filling with Zpoxy - amber tint causing problems
I started using epoxy only recently & what Todd says is exactly right. I spend much more time sanding (especially the sides) & am getting much better results. Any irregularities in the surface will give sand through problems
The only way I've found to get the wood ready for epoxy is to do the final sanding by hand, using a firm rubber sanding block.
I've tried & haven't been successful in sanding back to bare wood without exposing new pores.
The Scotch-Brite trick for the final coat prevents sand-thoughs if you've levelled the wood well.
I don't much like using epoxy, but the smoothness of the final finish is worth the hassles.
My first epoxy fill attempt is STILL hanging in a cupboard in my shop, after a whole year. It is so blotchy, it will need a complete re-sanding to get the wood smooth enough to try again.
Discouraging, but a lesson well learned.
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