+1 on the spreader. I can't see myself building without one to support the waist along with the lower and upper bout. They keep everything where it should be while glueing on the back and top plates.
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| Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27815 |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
After gluing the top I have noticed that the sides at the waist are in-toeing. Picture attached, I would say it is a about 1/8 off square- the ends seem OK What are the options, how easy would it be to lift off the top ? John |
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| Author: | Hupaand [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
I'm not sure what to do, but I've noticed with mine that if the waist is pulled, it often pulls the neck block area out-of-square along with it. Which might be an even bigger problem. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
Your best option is to not worry about it and press on regardless. Keep your neck block end square so that your neck geometry goes as planned and don't sweat an eighth of and inch in other places. Pat |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
As far as I know the neck block is square, it may need a bit of persuasion to keep it in place whilst I glue the back on. I'll trim the top and take a measurement top and botton just to see how far out it is and how far it goes around the rim. John |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
I would make a spreader for the waist. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
It is very rigid, I get the feeling that if I try to spread it something will give and I then have to remove it after the back is glued I could try it outside the mold and see if there is any give in it. John |
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| Author: | Rob Warren [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
+1 on the spreader for the waist. |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
The waist spreader can be as simple as a stick cut to the appropriate length and with radiused ends, sprung in place and taped for security just below the linings |
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| Author: | phil [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
i'm also in favor of the waist spreader. it may seem to put a bit of tension into the box now, but remember that your working with wood. after a week or two held into it's new position, the wood in that box will settle into it's new position. so use a spreader, glue on the back, then give it a couple of weeks to 'settle' before you finalize your neck angle. phil |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
This is common, at least to me, it is the result of the sides not matching the mold identically. Maybe you cut the ends a bit too short. Whatever. Line the mold sides with paper until when you pressurize the internal spreaders where you don't see "toeing" at the waist. Make sense? Then glue the top on. All should be parallel then. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
I think you run a risk of cracking your sides if you attempt to spread at the waist. The body has just ended up a bit smaller than the mold. So what? Bring the mold size down to the body size. Mike |
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| Author: | Tim L [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
That has happened to me before because the sides did not exactly match the mold, as Mike said. In my case the sides were a bit too long and one side of the waist tapered in from the top to back plate. My solution was to loosen the lock nuts on the mold, leaving about a 1/32" gap and then reclamping with the waist spreader only, making sure that my centerlines stayed true in the mold. The side went back to square. Tim |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
+1 on the spreader. I can't see myself building without one to support the waist along with the lower and upper bout. They keep everything where it should be while glueing on the back and top plates.
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
o k, look, is this your first build? one thing you have to realize is it ain't gonna be perfect. just spread the waist a bit, as much as you can without really stressing it, and get the back glued on and move on. no one but you will know about this, except us  . on da next build remember what happened here.the two most important things on a geetar is tone, and playability. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sides in-toeing - is it a disaster ? |
Just to be clear... I am not against the waist spreader... I use one as well. But the picture shows me something else is going on... and that is the body is a little smaller than the mold. Using a spreader here could crack the sides. I don't think spreaders should be used to stress the sides (force a fit to the mold), just keep them in the right location. Mike EDIT: I looked at the picture again (with wide awake eyes). That is not a lot of toeing at the waist. Just use a spreader. |
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