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Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27763		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Well here's the plunge cutter base for the Ellipsograph that I've been developing.
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27643
I've also made some small changes to the Ellipsograph too like adding 1/8" to the side rails and top disc so that they're 3/8" thick and the rails now have a full slot for the disc to ride in instead of just a half slot. The rails beside being a little wider are also adjustable a little to allow for tightening it up and removing any play of slop. One connection is a solid 90 degrees square and the other 3 are adjustable. There are a few extra holes and a bolt that are the result of errors or something that didn't quit work out as planed. But that's the whole purpose of a R&D prototype. I still need to design an cutter advance system for it so I can dial in the base. I have a couple of ideas I'm thinking about so that will pretty much be the last thing to work out. And I have to try out the HF die grinder to see if it's ok or a return for one that works. :P But so far I think it at least looks pretty good.
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Good grief Chris...that's just sensational. Wow. I'm in for one (if it ever gets that far).
Author:  douglas ingram [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
It looks great. It would be the perfect tool for me if I actually had need of one!
Author:  alan stassforth [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
you kill me, chris.
brilliant!
Author:  MaxBishop [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
That's incredible, Chris! You are truly the king of shop-made lutherie tools.

Congrats,
Max
Author:  Rick Cowan [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Totally slick Chris - your jigs rock!
Rick
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Thanks, it's getting there and I'm definately learning from this build as to what to make different on the next one. So the bugs will be worked out on the next one as I know there is one that will be introduced in the travel I plan but really no biggy if the travel works the other bug will only be a miner thing.
Pat. Pending :)
Author:  Quine [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Looks nice. how often do you have to polish the brass??
Author:  Robert Renick [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Very cool jig, I like oval sound holes. It would be cool if it could do sound ports as well, but it can make oval templates that could then be used for sound ports.
Rob
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Travels done and all the mechanics are done to this point . I just need to put some holes in the end of the long rails for locating and hold down when routing. I'd like to find someone who does CAD to see if they could make me an indexing label for .050" rotation dial that I could put on the end of the travel knob so I could put a pointer on top of the hex rod and use it to dial in thousands of travel and maybe ruler labels scales for the travel and disc separation distance. I think it's going to work pretty good and I'm happy with the look of it so far. I think it will be pretty precise and I think it has that old time craftsman tool look to it. I call it 21 Century Elizabethian. I'll get around to testing it out this week sometime and if it's ok then I'll try and get a YouTube demo on it. But here's a go around to give you a look see at how it's put together. I tried to keep it as simple as possible but with some precision controls to the jig and plunge router base. So far I'm pretty happy with it all and all. By the way the knobs are drawer pulls from Lowes and most of all the other hardware came from there too. It's alright for a one off or prototype but too expensive for a group build. The rear travel parts I machined out of 3/8"X 1" bar that I got at my local supplier along with the hex bar.
Author:  dberkowitz [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Chris, who made your micro die grinder, and do you think there's room on it to have a replacement sleeve made to fit Stewmac bases?
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
David,
That's a $25 Harbor Freight die grinder. I just got it pretty much for the Prototype. I had a Sioux in mind assuming they are also a 5/8" diameter.
There's only 2" between the bolts that lock the disc together and it looks like it would need about 4" for the StewMac base if it's the same as my Stewmac dremel base. Plus you would need at least 3/4" depth of bit extension to touch the top of the material to be cut since that's the heigth / thickness of the jig. I don't know if you have that much room with the Stewmac base.
I plan on widening that area on the next one but only widening the router base a little maybe 1/2". I'm wanting to make the slot it rides in only 1" or 3/4" wide just for easier manufactoring purposes. One reason I screwed the slot guide to the bottom of the router base is I figure I can just unscrew it and screw on a wider sub base to use the plunge base as a stand alone plunge base or on other jigs like Keith MacKenzie's dupicator. Might as well get as many miles out of the grinder and base as I can. And it might also help to justify the cost of the jig if I decide to build and sale them. Could develope into some sort of system. :)
I also think for it to be used with a dremel or a Foredom tool that making it a bit larger like maybe 12" or 10" dia disc would be better and allow more room to work with. Mine are 8" at this point which allows me to use my mini mill to do certain opps. I'm not too sure how much larger I can make them and use the mill. I'd probally have to make some router jigs to make them larger or farm the parts out to a CNC.
Author:  dberkowitz [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Chris, my interest lies in the fact that Foredoms, which I have, don't have the RPMs to get the best cut from smaller endmills. There are several operations that would work more cleanly if I could get the speed up. I mentioned to Jay Hostetler at Stewmac that Foredom offers a geared up tool handle, and asked whether Stewmac wouldn't look into offering that handle instead, but nothing's happened with that. So the issue for me is whether I could modify the collar to work with the Stewmac bases. Hadn't heard about the Sioux. Thanks. -- db
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
David,
The HF is 56Krpm and Sioux makes one that RPM or 60K along with a 70K and a 90K. I think John Hall the 56K and 90K at a good price. And I think David Nichols of Custom Pearl Inlay has them too. I'm not sure what the Dia. of the Foredom handle is but I think they may have a pretty thin one and that the router carriage could be opened up to take it. I mean when there is need there is usually a way. I might check out the Foredom hand pieces to see what's available so if someone doesn't have a compressor they could use a Foredom. I have wanted a Foredom tool for the fact that it is electrican and a foot switch for speed control over a dremel for FB inlay cavities But now with the pencil grinder that may change. I wonder if a small, quite pancake compressor will run the pencil/ die grinder? But I also have a 450K rpm Dentist type hand piece but it doesn't have a lot of torque routing and designed engraving and relief carving and etching and etc.
I do think you could make the stewmac base work with the pencil grinder. Looks like from the pic in the catalog that you could make a reducer or make a clamp like on mine for it. If you look you will se mine is just a rectangular piece with an 5/8" hole in it and slit in front and it is screwed to the other piece in the back and a screw in the front to tighten it. It's pretty much to keep it from spinning. I didn't want to just put a setscrew in the bottom piece because I wasn't too sure if a setscrew would damage the grinder housing, better safe then sorry especially with a $100 grinder.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
This picture shows how changing the discs separation and leaving pencil or cutter locked in place will make the ellipses narrower or farther from a circle. That's the inner ellipses and by locking in the discs separattion and moving the cutter or like changing the radius on a circle the size of the ellipses change and they are concentric.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Here's some shots of the bottom side of the Star Ship Enterprize.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Very very cool, Chris. Beautiful work. Reminds me of some of the jigs people use for elliptical turning, only neater.

Make one to accept a PC 310 and I'll take it!
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
That would be the LP size as this is just a 45. Might make a EP for a Dremel. :)
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
I don't even want to know how much will this particular jig cost once its offered for sale... I am thinking it will probably exceed 200 dollars.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
You can always get one of the Farey's and mount a router to it . But the box is only 7" so it might be a bit small. It's only $8750+ S&H :)
http://www.gemmary.com/instcat/08/S08-001.html
This HAFF is good for drawing.
http://www.haff.com/ellipsograph_e.htm
But it's about $151 with S&H to USA.
Ellipsograph No. 97 EURO 87,39
+ shipping (airmailed parcel) EURO 35,00
total: EURO 122,39
Just to give you some perspective on it. :)
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Or alternatively, could post or sell the plan of the jig on OLF or something, and I can figure how much it costs to have someone in Taiwan laser cut the parts on acrylic... those shops are everywhere here.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
First off plexi is the first way to cheapen it as this is Poly which taps and machines much better and you won't have dust collecting all over it. In other words you get what you pay for. I'm not interested in putting a cheap tool out there or a low quality tool. I'm striving for a quality tool with some precision just like my guitars. Not for a cheap knock off. And if I were to farm it out to a CNC shop it would surely be here in the US to someone who I would trust to produce quality parts to my satifaction and then I could proudly put my name on it and "Made In The USA". [:Y:]
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
Chris Paulick wrote:
First off plexi is the first way to cheapen it as this is Poly which taps and machines much better and you won't have dust collecting all over it. In other words you get what you pay for. I'm not interested in putting a cheap tool out there or a low quality tool. I'm striving for a quality tool with some precision just like my guitars. Not for a cheap knock off. And if I were to farm it out to a CNC shop it would surely be here in the US to someone who I would trust to produce quality parts to my satifaction and then I could proudly put my name on it and "Made In The USA". [:Y:]


not really looking to do a business venture but it is an option for someone like me where shipping will most likely be very expensive. I can simply submit the plan to a CNC shop in Taiwan and see what are the cost.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
"No Soup For You" :)
I'm not out sourcing my possible work or job or possibly my friends future work or jobs to Taiwan.
I have to pay the shipping cost for goods from your country and even a higher price in lost work.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ellipsograph Plunge Router/ Micro Die Grinder Base Prototype
You seem to have a lot of mistrust for Taiwanese or asians in general. I hope it doesn't have to do with inlaidartist or someone like that.

I am not looking to make money off of your jigs or anything but what I was saying is if I had a need for a jig like this I'd buy a plan or blueprint from you (if you offered it for sale) and ask a CNC shop in Taiwan laser me one out of plexiglass or wood or any other material. Shipping from the US is getting more expensive (it is cheaper the other way around) and plexi is cheap in Taiwan anyways. I am sure I could find the material you're using too. I mean if you are afraid of someone stealing your work and making money off of it, first of all, luthiery isn't exactly a popular hobby, at least not in Asia, and secondly, if someone really wanted to copy your design it wouldn't be too difficult for someone to simply buy your product and reverse engineer it.

You seem to mistake my intent, I am not looking to be an OEM or asking if you can outsource production, I am simply asking about the possibility of simply buying a plan from you if its finished and I can attempt to make it myself. I don't have a CNC but there are many shops who does.
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