| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Notching sides for brace ends? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27689 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Gtrman13 [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Notching sides for brace ends? |
I'm in the midst of building guitar #5, and I'm set to seal up the box. On my previous builds, I simply notched the linings to accept the brace ends, but I'm told it's more traditional to notch all the way through the side. I already attached the back to the rim, and I did it this way without any issues. Now that I'm ready to attach the top, I'm having a bit of trouble. My plans call for my brace ends to be too tall to be covered up completely by bindings if I notch through the sides for them. As far as I can see, my options are to shave a bit more off of my brace ends or I can only notch the linings and leave the sides untouched. What would the pros and cons be of each way? Sidenote, I used radius dishes in a homemade go bar deck for the first time with this build. Wow, what a pleasant working experience! I can't wait to hear the difference in the sound of the final product. I'm sure that all of my joints are of a much higher quality now. Also been using the LMI white glue. I hear it's quite a difference maker also. |
|
| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
The only reason I'm aware of that people cut through the side is to make the job easier. There is no need to do it that way. Your method works just fine and can have the added benefit of helping hold the plate on the center line as you glue. |
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
I don't like going through the sides, this will often create a weak zone were a crack can start. Keep the notch to the kerfing. |
|
| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
Going through the sides is simpler, faster, so I see no reason not to. bluescreek wrote: I don't like going through the sides, this will often create a weak zone were a crack can start. A weak zone, where? |
|
| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
I,ve done it both ways,but now I just notch linings. As Kent said just inletting into linings can help you with centre line alignment if you want it to. Don't see a big problem with doing it either way. Tom |
|
| Author: | Alan [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
As already stated, this can be done either way...neither is right or wrong. I notch mine through the sides. I find that by the time I cut the sides for the bindings, I'm essentially through the sides anyway. I haven't had a problem centering the top and back plates when gluing, but as mentioned, notching just the lining will help to hold the plates in place when gluing. |
|
| Author: | gozierdt [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
I've done it both ways. I had trouble on one guitar when one of the braces ended up a little taller than the binding. I had to add an extra layer of purfling to cover it. I don't make the brace ends that tall anymore- I think that creates too stiff a joint. I now cut the X-brace ends down to about 1/8" using a router and jig before I final shape the braces, then mark and rout the lining channel for the braces the same depth using a dremel tool. I only go through the braces, not the sides. This process is described in Somogyi's book, and I like how clean and repeatable a connection it gives. I'm also starting to use a thinner binding, so that I don't completely cut the side away from the linings. I think that creates a stronger joint overall. |
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
when you through notch a side , you so create a weak spot. This is a shear point. The Comet , the first commercial airline was doomed for having a square window that allowed cracks to form . This resulted in crashes. Granted you won't crash a plane notching a guitar but the engineering is the same. Any square corner is a focus point for stress. I have seen guitars that had through notches that cracked and it was traced back to the corner of the notch. Martin , Gretch , nor Gibson through notched the braces . |
|
| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
John, does it really matter since the area of the side with the brace notch gets routed out for the binding anyway? Routing through the sides is faster, but depends on how thick is the brace end and how tall (or short) is the binding. Obviously the binding/purfling must cover the notch if routed through. I use short bindings so I usually don't cut through. If I do, however, after routing I will trim the braces ends a bit short of the binding to prevent problems related to shrinkage. |
|
| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
hey, if you want to notch trough, why don't you thin the braces at the very end, so the binding would cover the joint? |
|
| Author: | David LaPlante [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
Notching "through", I think, implies that the brace ends may be right up against the bindings especially if they are left a bit long and then routed. As we all know, wood shrinks over time and mostly across the grain. Thus all those old guitars that we've seen with the brace ends having either fractured the sides or actually sticking out. Of course with some designs such as the Torres the main braces are left full height and must be trimmed back and slipped into full width slots cut into the linings and supported by separate rib blocks. Again these are kept at least 1mm short of contacting the sides. However you cut your notches, make sure that the brace ends themselves fall at least 1mm short of the sides. |
|
| Author: | Mike Collins [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
As Dave says ! However you cut your notches, make sure that the brace ends themselves fall at least 1mm short of the sides. I agree. Mike |
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Notching sides for brace ends? |
It doesn't matter so much which technique you use just be aware of some of the pitfalls of the through notch. As other methods of building , it isn't what you do , as much as it is how you do it. There are advantages and disadvantages to different techniques and as long as you plan for the long term you should be ok. Still in notching through, you do create a weak zone and you should be aware of that and plan accordingly . |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|