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| Author: | arie [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | mop substitute |
Looking for a substitute for mother of pearl for inlay work. Something that wasn't alive (non-life form) at some point. Any ideas? Thanks. |
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| Author: | Mark A Thorpe [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Inlace. http://www.inlaceonline.com/ |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
No real substitute but you can look at Corian . there is a whole color pallet to select from . Most shops that use this stuff will be happy to sell some pieces . It works easy and finishes well. |
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| Author: | jackwilliams [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
What about the tree from which the spruce and mahogany came from? or the hot hide glue... |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
How about clown barf? http://www.frets.com/FRETSpages/general/glossary/ClownBarf/clownbarf.html Seems it 's good enough for Frank Ford! |
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| Author: | arie [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Thanks for the help guys! The inlace stuff looks interesting -I'll have to get some samples. What about the tree from which the spruce and mahogany came from? or the hot hide glue... Sorry for the confusion Jack, my mistake -I should have stated "non animal". Hopefully this puts your mind at ease. Again thanks for the help all ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
arie wrote: What about the tree from which the spruce and mahogany came from? or the hot hide glue... Well, vegans won't eat yogurt with gelatin, so you may be in trouble with 'penetrating that market sector' if you use hide glue in your guitars! And, aren't lac beetles 'sacrificed' during processing of shellac? Man, this stuff is complicated!! ![[uncle]](./images/smilies/surrenderflagqv6.gif "Uncle") 
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| Author: | arie [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Quote: Well, vegans won't eat yogurt with gelatin, so you may be in trouble with 'penetrating that market sector' if you use hide glue in your guitars! And, aren't lac beetles 'sacrificed' during processing of shellac? Man, this stuff is complicated!! - I don't use hide glue, nor do all luthiers. - No, actually this isn't complicated at all. Lac beetles aren't sacrificed during the production of shellac. They ingest the sap of the tree, and excrete it out from their legs in order to hold on to the tree itself (usually the Kursum tree), hence "stick-lac". The tree is then cut down and the bark shavings are then further processed to draw the resin deposits from the insects out. The shavings are then heated and filtered leaving behind liquid shellac. Shellac is a UV resistant natural polymer and often used in coating pills, tablets, and tasty candy. |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
arie wrote: - No, actually this isn't complicated at all. Lac beetles aren't sacrificed during the production of shellac. They ingest the sap of the tree, and excrete it out from their legs in order to hold on to the tree itself (usually the Kursum tree), hence "stick-lac". The tree is then cut down and the bark shavings are then further processed to draw the resin deposits from the insects out. You've got this mostly right... The trees aren't cut down, the encrusted sticks (branches) are usually trimmed off. The dead adults- they die after reproducing - are inside the lac deposits. The eggs hatch and the young exit the lac encrustations, hopefully before processing. BTW, I'm not sure if oysters and other shellfish are actually 'harvested' for the shell, or if the shell is a by-product of food/pearl fishery. I know that abalone shell was definitely 'leftover' from the abalone food business on the Pacific coast of N. America- before abalone harvesting was mostly banned. Perhaps you have some info on this? |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
arie wrote: Looking for a substitute for mother of pearl for inlay work. Something that wasn't alive (non-life form) at some point. Any ideas? Thanks. I'm pretty sure someone ate the oyster, but importantly, the shell is not alive. When you get right down to it, unless you build your guitar out of rock (rock guitar  ) then you will always be using something that at one time was involved with the living process. Even celluloid!!!Mike |
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| Author: | arie [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Quote: You've got this mostly right... The trees aren't cut down, the encrusted sticks (branches) are usually trimmed off. The dead adults- they die after reproducing - are inside the lac deposits. The eggs hatch and the young exit the lac encrustations, hopefully before processing. BTW, I'm not sure if oysters and other shellfish are actually 'harvested' for the shell, or if the shell is a by-product of food/pearl fishery. I know that abalone shell was definitely 'leftover' from the abalone food business on the Pacific coast of N. America- before abalone harvesting was mostly banned. Perhaps you have some info on this? oh.. cool. thanks for the update john. -nope don't know much about shellfish. but can I assume that one is a by-product of another? |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Mike O'Melia wrote: ....... you will always be using something that at one time was involved with the living process. Even celluloid!!! It's funny how marketing works- I don't have a clue, obviously. I recently saw a guitar finish described as a 'plant-derived spirit varnish'...I think the maker was referring to (nitro) cellulose lacquer!! Anyway, sorry for the derailment- back to the scheduled program..... Cheers John |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
How about shell harvested from the beach, not from live shellfish? |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
There's also ivoroid. Pat |
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| Author: | Pete Brown [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Pat Foster wrote: There's also ivoroid. Pat Harvested from synthetic elephants? |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Pete Brown wrote: Pat Foster wrote: There's also ivoroid. Pat Harvested from synthetic elephants? You'd figure it'd be worth more, considering the source:  (Source: http://www.templates.com/blog/the-most- ... er-part-2/) |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
I am waiting for this thread to devolve  But I am doing my best to not help it....  Mike |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Recon stone is also used for inlay work, I don't think it has the shimmer of shell, but many colors and patterns available. I have been looking into it for the same reasons, I would like to keep my guitars vegetarian as possible. I know for many this seems silly, as was stated, the trees were alive. Many make these choices based on personal decisions frequently from a spiritual perspective. There are no rules about this, each of us, carnivore or herbivore, decides what we feel is acceptable. I live in a unique town that has a relatively large vegetarian population, some estimates are around 30%. I have similar spiritual reasons as many in my community for being vegetarian, and am happy to cater to this market. As some indicator of the growth of this vegetarian market, I can point to the vegetarian freezer section in my grocery store, 5 years ago there were a couple of shelves, now we have 3 full doors of stuff to microwave. My point, it is simply personal choice, and a growing market. Rob |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Pete Brown wrote: Pat Foster wrote: There's also ivoroid. Pat Harvested from synthetic elephants? From pachydoids, actually. Pat |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
re: guitars without animal parts/product content I lived as a vegetarian for a couple of years (in India), so I'm pretty familiar with the issues involved. (Tourists who've had to leave their leather belts at the temple entrance are a familiar (and sometimes comic) sight...) New 'converts' to vegetarianism often spend quite a bit of time with 'imitation meat' recipes (vegetable 'chops' , 'veggie burgers', etc) before they develop a good repertoire of veg. recipes. I think of the 'MOP substitute' quest in this light. There are plenty of all-wood choices for inlay, purflings, and rosettes, and nobody will ever mistake them for MOP or other shell. Tagua Nuts are a possibility for small white inlay applications. And of course, Corian and other synthetics fill the bill for nuts and saddles if bone is not acceptable. Plastic sticks or brass wire can be used for side position markers on fingerboards. Gold/brass/silver also have inlay applications. There are lots of paths to follow so that the guitar will not have the MOP 'look' , which could be objectionable to some people. And there are plenty of non-vegetarians who just think shell inlay is too flashy, anyhow! Cheers John PS: For your reading list:http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=EN_NEWS&ACTION=D&SESSION=&RCN=32164 |
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| Author: | Quine [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Pat Foster wrote: How about clown barf? http://www.frets.com/FRETSpages/general/glossary/ClownBarf/clownbarf.html Seems it 's good enough for Frank Ford! Hmm....I kinda like that. Wouldn't it be great to gloat about your intricate clown barf inlays? |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Not to mention the other glues luthier uses (PVA or aliphatic resin glue) came from petroleum which came from dead animals buried a long time ago. |
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| Author: | MRS [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
plastic? |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Pat Foster wrote: There's also ivoroid. Pat That is plastic based, which as we all know is based on petroleum, which itself is based on (once) living things meaning we can't escape using once living things to build a guitar. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: mop substitute |
Also the lacquer thinner and the lacquer came from petroleum too... I guess only thing we can use is shellac, and alcohol came from plants. |
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