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Author:	Eric Hoffer [ Tue May 25, 2010 7:51 am ]
Post subject:	oak for kerfed liners?
...think this is ok? I have some oak laying around at the moment and thought I would try it for some kerfing. This may lead to another discussion about the affect of liners on tone. Forgive me if this has been discussed before as I could not find in with the search bar. Thanks! -Eric

Author:	Ti-Roux [ Tue May 25, 2010 7:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
The only objections I could have are about... 1- the deepness of the pores (if it's red it's deeper than white) 2- Density. It's may be pretty heavy for kerfing. And the suggestions I could have are... 1-Kerfing stock is not so expensive, it's a good investment for a lighter instrument 2-Take what you want. It's just have to able to stick sides and back together... Weight, color, scent, acoustic qualities, etc... It's all about you.

Author:	Mark Groza [ Tue May 25, 2010 8:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
I would use oak for kerfed linings. It's not any heavier than mahogany which is used alot. If i had plenty of it around, i would use it. I use ash alot with good results which isn't much different.

Author:	Alexandru Marian [ Tue May 25, 2010 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
I used it once, probably never will again. It is heavy, and really very tough to work with, I much prefer something more forgiving such as cedrella, mahogany or cypress. Although i did it entirely by hand, maybe it doesn't mater if you have a table saw and one of those fancy kerfing setups.

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Tue May 25, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
If you want to use domestic woods, poplar or basswood are far better choices. Even better, spruce, or even fir or white pine. Oak will add unecessary (little) weight. My other thought is it may be difficult to kerf it without chip-out.

Author:	truckjohn [ Tue May 25, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
If you really think about what the liners are in there for -- to increase the glue line surface for the top and sides.... Any wood that glues well could do the job just fine.... Now, think about some of the other characteristics that would help liners... 1. Bends easily to conform to the sides 2. Easy to shape/carve when leveling the rims for gluing the top/back to the sides 3. Weight it adds to the instrument 4. Not splitty Mahogany or Cederela or Spruce -- They bend quite nicely when thin, take glue well, and are extremely easy to shape when levelling the rims. The 1 thing I think about Oak is that it is very hard and tough... Leveling the rims would probably take quite a while... and it would have to be sawn quite thin at the kerfs so that it would bend around corners.... Otherwise, it isn't splitty and does take glue well.... I think if I decided to use oak -- it would be for non-kerfed linings because it just hot bends so easily..... In my mind, there are several choices that bend just as easily but aren't as hard like Ash, Elm, Soft maple, and Willow, though... Thanks John

Author:	Michael Smith [ Tue May 25, 2010 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
Not really that experienced with guitar building but am with wood. I have used a lot of red oak that is no heavier or denser than true mahogany. It does have a lot of good qualities, Glues very well, bends pretty good. Cheap. Doesn't contain much oil. Open grain could aid in glueing when the pores fill up.

Author:	Eric Hoffer [ Wed May 26, 2010 10:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
Well, I used the oak. It is true that I had to cut my kerfs very deep in order to make the bends around the waist (I used a simple setup with a stop on my bandsaw) which led to a couple of pieces breaking, but other than that it worked pretty well. I didn't really notice much of a difference when I sanded the rim with my dish either, seemed to sand nicely. I think I would use it again.

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Wed May 26, 2010 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
Oak is a smelly wood (IMHO). As an admitted sound hole sniffer, I would be put off by the scent of unfinished oak. But that's just me. Some folks even build whole guitars out of oak! That said, why not?

Author:	truckjohn [ Thu May 27, 2010 7:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
You know... Every time I hear of a wood that "Can't" be used to make Guitars... I end up hearing about someone who does it successfully... I do like the scent of some woods -- I used some Spanish Cedar in one guitar... Loved the smell of it! Totally wonderful for "Soundhole sniffing" On the Oak liners -- Sure, freshly cut oak can sometimes have that stinky/vinegary smell.... but it dissipates quickly -- within a few hours or so... I made the Neck of my Red Oak guitar out of some Red Oak that had an amazing vanilla/nutty smell when working it... I kept thinking "Gosh, Imagine using this for making wine!" Thanks John

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Thu May 27, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
It's not the first time I read comments on how red oak smells bad. I wonder if we're talking about the same species. I've never come accross a piece of red oak that didn't smell wonderful, like what John describes for his neck. The close European counterpart has been used, after all, to make barrels for fine wines and whiskies for centuries, if not millenia.

Author:	SteveCourtright [ Thu May 27, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: oak for kerfed liners?
Laurent Brondel wrote: It's not the first time I read comments on how red oak smells bad. I wonder if we're talking about the same species. I think you are right, Laurent, and it's white oak that smells a bit like sweaty socks...

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