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3 piece backs
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27554		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  martinedwards [ Tue May 25, 2010 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  3 piece backs
just stumbled over the infamous Taylor Pallet guitar online again.

I LOVE the attitude behind it, but it raises a question for me.

the back is made from planks cut from an oak pallet.

but the centre panel is wedge shaped

Image

I've seen this in many guitars with a maple wedge in the middle of a rosewood back etc, but the point if I ever get to it is this.......

is there a good reason for the centre panel to be triangular other than the look of the thing (which I like)

parallel would be easier to clamp wouldn't it?
Author:  DennisK [ Tue May 25, 2010 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
I always figured it was just for appearance, since I've never seen a 3 or 4 piece top that didn't have vertical seams. Especially makes sense if the outer boards are particularly nice looking, since it results in less of them being cut away. On that thought, it also makes it more symmetrical in a sense, that you have more area covered by the outer bookmatched boards compared to the asymmetrical center board.
Author:  Kim [ Tue May 25, 2010 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
I think they do it that way to reduce resistance in a head wind. 8-)






















OK, a guitar body is wide at the lower bout and narrower at the upper bout. A triangular centre piece in the back is naturally more pleasing to the eye because of this dimensional configuration.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Haans [ Tue May 25, 2010 5:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Now I know why I dye oak!
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue May 25, 2010 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
This is done to save wood. Martin made the first successful 3 pc back . It was done to use up the stocks of BRW. They used a 6 inch wide wedge. The design became famous . This allowed them to use a narrower piece for the sides of the back. It looks better than 3 straight pieces down the back
Author:  Corky Long [ Tue May 25, 2010 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Gotta love a guitar with nails going through the back.... [:Y:]

I was recently blown away by an oack guitar I played at Newport - the contribution to the Sonic Sitka project - a unique, but very pleasing sound.
Author:  Colin S [ Tue May 25, 2010 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
bluescreek wrote:
This is done to save wood. Martin made the first successful 3 pc back . It was done to use up the stocks of BRW. They used a 6 inch wide wedge. The design became famous . This allowed them to use a narrower piece for the sides of the back. It looks better than 3 straight pieces down the back


I'm sorry but Martin were late to the party when it came to making three piece backs. Most of the European builders were using three piece backs for the reason of using valuable wood that was only available in smaller sizes, long before Martin started making instruments. Torres second recorded guitar from 1854 has a three piece back with a triangular centre section. Take a look in the Romanillos book and you'll see that only 30 of his 88 guitar surveyed had a two piece back, while 37 had three piece backs, almost all of these with the triangluar centre section. And, I have personally repaired instruments dating back into the 18th century that used three piece backs with the same form. Not everything started with Martin, they were also capable of copying earlier builders.

Colin
Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue May 25, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Indeed Colin, the Spanish were doing this 100 years before Martin thought of it.
It became THE style for the pre-Torres Spanish guitar, along with pieced sides to match.
Attachment:
RecioBack-002.jpg

Attachment:
RecioBack-003.jpg
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue May 25, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Image

Image
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Tue May 25, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Stunning craftsmanship as usual Howard!!! [clap]
Author:  Mike Collins [ Tue May 25, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Howard -those are works of art !
Stunning !
Great color matching & purfs.!
Did you make the purflings yourself ?

Mike
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue May 25, 2010 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Thanks and yes I make the purflings. But my post was to point out that a wedge in the center isn't always used or needed. I think Al Carruth has done some with a parallel edged center.
Author:  LaurieW [ Tue May 25, 2010 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
To me, I think its for aesthetics.....Here is my attempt when I cracked the 2-piece myrtle back I had. I used offcuts from the sides to made the wedge, and this is as tapered as I could get and still made a full sized guitar. I think it would look better if it was less parallel, but anything to save a set of figured myrtle! I used Cumpiano's method in his book for glueing with no issues either.


Attachment:
Myrtle - reduced.JPG
Author:  BruceHerrmann [ Wed May 26, 2010 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Great stuff here, Howard, those are great guitars.
I ran into something interesting the other day. I was French polishing a 4 piece
back guitar for a friend. The seams were perfect, yellow aliphatic resin glue was used.
As I was applying the shellac, actually during a spiriting off, one of the seams opened
a small amount. It turned out that the glue had reacted to the alcohol. I did some research
on aliphatic resin glues and this is not an unusual response. Given that, would you
use a HHG or urethane to prevent that or is this an unusual response that you'd never
expect to see? The center seam was fine, no other seams were involved and I've French
polished shellac on many guitars before with no such problems, but none were 4 piece backs. Just wonder if anyone else has run into this.
Sorry for the slight thread hijack...
Author:  bluescreek [ Wed May 26, 2010 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Let me edit it to say the Martin was the first major manufacturer to make a 3 piece back a successful part of thier production. Yes I was aware of some other 3 pieced backed guitars but none on the scale that Martin did as a production company .
Author:  Bobc [ Fri May 28, 2010 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Beautiful work as usual Howard. Just curious as to what glue you use for those multiple piece sides.

I like the challenge of matching up 4 piece backs when I find some narrow stock that is worth the effort.

Image
Author:  CWLiu [ Fri May 28, 2010 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 3 piece backs
Bob, all I can say about that set is WOW!

I'm wondering, when cutting a log, how close to the center of the trunk will be considered as core and discarded?
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