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Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27481		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  John A [ Thu May 20, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
HI everyone,

After spending the last week or two dealing with drilling holes in my headstock for my classical tuners - they came out crooked and I have to fill them and try again. [headinwall]
I used a General Pro doweling jig - and I still managed to drill crooked holes. Lots of tolerance issues with that tool - made a mess.
I was about to buy the jig from LMI - but then I got to thinking.... why are people using a hand drill and jigs to make the drum holes for the tuners ?
What is wrong with just using a drill press and a drill press vice ? Can I expect greater accuracy and straighter holes this way ?
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Thu May 20, 2010 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
Drilling accurately can be more difficult than it looks. Starting with good, sharp bits that don't wander helps.

A drill press should be just fine but it requires good setup and careful measuring.

I bought drill bushings from McMaster-Carr and made my own drill jig for about $20. That's a good route to go if you ever plan to make more. There are a number of drill jigs commercially available if you don't want to make your own but they are, of course, more expensive.
Author:  John A [ Thu May 20, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
Kent Chasson wrote:
Drilling accurately can be more difficult than it looks. Starting with good, sharp bits that don't wander helps.

A drill press should be just fine but it requires good setup and careful measuring.

I bought drill bushings from McMaster-Carr and made my own drill jig for about $20. That's a good route to go if you ever plan to make more. There are a number of drill jigs commercially available if you don't want to make your own but they are, of course, more expensive.


OK - so a drill press is just fine ? As far as setup goes - make sure the table is 90 degress to the bit and then when the headstock is on the table that also has to be 90 degress to the bit - right ? using a drill press vice will make sure nothing moves. Is that what you mean ?

You bought drill bushings and made a jig ? - was this for hand drilling or are you also using a jig with the drill press ?
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Thu May 20, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
I built a couple of slotted pegheads without a jig & wasn't at all happy with the results. They were pretty good, but a long way from perfect.
Since then I've done a few with the jig from LMI. What a difference!
There are other jigs available but the LMI one is the only one I've tried.
John Gilbert sells an inexpensive drilling jig. Does a great job, but won't help you with cutting the slots. The more expensive jigs set up for both jobs.
Author:  letseatpaste [ Thu May 20, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
Be sure to check out the luthiertool.com jig. The price is high but so is the quality.

Image
Author:  John A [ Thu May 20, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
I have no issue cutting the slots - I am using the Robbie O'Brien method - works great - no problem making a slot template for the router either.
My only issue is drilling straight holes.

So with the drill press do I still need the jig ? Why are you guys not using a drill press, I assume you are using the jigs with a hand drill ?
I have no problem ordering the jig either - just curious if needed with the drill press and why more people do not use the drill press.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Thu May 20, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
I've done it both ways...used a jig when I took a course, use the drill press at home.
It's a trade-off...
With the drill press you generally get very good control of the angle, less precision on the hole position.

With the jig, initial hole position is excellent, but the angle can vary- depending on the depth of the guide hole, etc.

Using a hand-held drill needs 'hand tool skill' to some extent- it can be tricky to drill a perpendicular hole.

Cheers
John
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Thu May 20, 2010 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
Whilst I have a drill press, I elected to buy and use the gilbert jig with a hand drill. So glad I did.
Because it is about 1 1/2" wide and the drill bit(which I bought at the same time) is a snug fit in the holes, it really guides the direction of the holes well not just the initial positioning.
Just clamp the headstock to the tabletop, clamp the drill jig in front with shims if necessary and mark the depth on the drill bit with tape. easy.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu May 20, 2010 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
Filippo's right. It's too easy to just buy the jig. I did put some shims on mine and mark the hole centers. The shims make it easier to center the holes, face to back, in the headstock. Using a cordless drill with a stop on the bit takes no skill at all. Just back out the bit, from time to time, to get the chips out of there. I use a sharp machinists drill. Works fine. No chipping at all. I could use a brad point, but haven't seen the need.
Author:  Rene [ Thu May 20, 2010 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
I haven't graduated to drill bushings in jigs yet as I still like to layout things every time.
In my day job I frequently drill several types of metals using a drill press or cordless with no problems. The thing I was surprised to learn about wood is that in some cases the grain will throw my bit off the mark just a little especially when the mark falls on the grain line instead of between the grain lines. I think that does make a differnce. I'm talking about top mounted tuner holes not the side mounted type. Of course that never happens with metals (although I swear some metals come with knots in them). It really helps to have a super sharp brad point bit, very accurate layouts, and then slow and careful drilling. One more thing, whenever possible I use a floor drill press and yes make sure everything is level and plumb.

René
Author:  woody b [ Thu May 20, 2010 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
I use a $27.50 drill jig from Stew Mac to drill the tuner holes.
Image

I rough cut the slots on my drill press.
Image


I finish shaping the slot with files, rasps, and some sandpaper glued on a dowell.
Image

It takes me an hour or so. I bet it takes at least 30 minutes with an expensive jig and router.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Thu May 20, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
John A wrote:
Why are you guys not using a drill press, I assume you are using the jigs with a hand drill ?


I use the drill press to drill the classical tuner holes (and a router with a home-made jig for the slots).

I made a simple 'L' shaped 'fence' out of Baltic birch plywood - the top edge of the fence is parallel to the base.
The headstock gets clamped to the fence-aligned with the top edge, the fence base is clamped (or just held) to the drill press table.
I lay out the hole positions using the plate from the tuners, and use a brad-point drill - just because it is easier to center it in the marked hole. Traditional classical neck woods (Mahog or Sp.Cedar) drill quite easily. I cut the slots after the tuner holes are drilled.

I'm too cheap (and too proud) to buy jigs - especially not for the prices they are asking, generally. (BTW, the StewMac jig for classical tuners is very nice, but it costs $148.50. That's the one I used when I took a building course.)

Cheers
John
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu May 20, 2010 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
OK, so shoot me, I use a milling machine. idunno
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Thu May 20, 2010 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
SteveSmith wrote:
OK, so shoot me, I use a milling machine. idunno


Hey, Steve-
With the milling machine, you can make jigs for everybody!
laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe [:Y:]
My dream shop would definitely have milling machine and a (metal) lathe.
Author:  John A [ Thu May 20, 2010 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
JohnAbercrombie wrote:
John A wrote:
Why are you guys not using a drill press, I assume you are using the jigs with a hand drill ?


I use the drill press to drill the classical tuner holes (and a router with a home-made jig for the slots).

I made a simple 'L' shaped 'fence' out of Baltic birch plywood - the top edge of the fence is parallel to the base.
The headstock gets clamped to the fence-aligned with the top edge, the fence base is clamped (or just held) to the drill press table.
I lay out the hole positions using the plate from the tuners, and use a brad-point drill - just because it is easier to center it in the marked hole. Traditional classical neck woods (Mahog or Sp.Cedar) drill quite easily. I cut the slots after the tuner holes are drilled.

I'm too cheap (and too proud) to buy jigs - especially not for the prices they are asking, generally. (BTW, the StewMac jig for classical tuners is very nice, but it costs $148.50. That's the one I used when I took a building course.)

Cheers
John



Thanks John,

I think I will do it this way. I like the L shaped fence idea as well ! I'll be making it tomorrow morning and drilling with my drill press. The jig prices are out of hand and I still think there is a possiblilty of misaligned holes with any jig.
Author:  brenbrenCT [ Fri May 21, 2010 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
SteveSmith wrote:
OK, so shoot me, I use a milling machine. idunno


dick



:lol:
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri May 21, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
brenbrenCT wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
OK, so shoot me, I use a milling machine. idunno


dick



:lol:

laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

edit: I only have one because of my day job but it does come in handy.
Author:  John V [ Fri May 21, 2010 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
HI
I've only made four CGs so obvioulsy I defer to the more experienced feedback already received. In my first two guitars I used a dowel jig and carved the slots manually with a less that satisfactory result, however I did purchase the LMI jig for the other two and had a much better result. It is pricey and the slot widths are wider than than the standard 5/8. Had I been aare of OLF I probalbly would have considered some other options.

John V
Author:  Heath Blair [ Fri May 21, 2010 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
brenbrenCT wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
OK, so shoot me, I use a milling machine. idunno


dick



:lol:


brendan,

this is the second time ive seen you make inappropriate comments on this forum. you might not find it a big deal and im not the forum police, but this kind of comment is completely unwelcome here. you might want to read over the OLF code of conduct. im not trying to disclude you from commenting, but keep in mind what is acceptable.
Author:  jayluthier [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
Luthiertool jig.. pricey yes..but once you try it you'll never go back to a home made jig. Repeatable precision. for my money/time. worth every penny

Jay Gordon
Gordonguitarworks.com
Author:  tim88 [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
brenbrenCT wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
OK, so shoot me, I use a milling machine. idunno


dick



:lol:





Come on man, my 11 year old reads this forum too. We also have young builders on here occasionally.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Slotted Headstock drill jig or Drill press ?
So if everyone's got a drill press why not just make your own drilling jig with a block of aluminum?
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