Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Gluing the tenon?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27183		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  sprouseod [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Gluing the tenon?
This may seem like a silly question, but it seems there are a lot complicated jigs and fixtures to route out the tenon on the neck and establish the proper angle for the neck body joint. I am under the impression that glued joints are as strong or stronger than the natural wood. Why not make the cut on the neck block at the desired neck /body location with the appropriate angle using a mitre gauge then glue the tenon on and trim the tenon to the appropriate length with another cross cut?

Just curious

Richard
Author:  Corky Long [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
If you use use bolts in the M&T neck - check Bill Cumpiano's website for how he does it - (and the bolts are available at Home Depot for very little $), you have the luxury of putting the guitar together, puttling strings on it, and adjusting the neck set, if necessary after the guitar has settled in.

I love the M&T bolt on neck. For me, using glue would defeat the purpose of an M&T neck, which is ease of removal, adjustment, etc. And it's a very strong joint if done properly, which takes less technical savvy than a dovetail.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
If I'm understanding you right, I think you're saying glue the tenon onto the neck? If that's what you're suggesting it won't be stronger than the wood as the ends of the neck are all end grain and gluing to end grain is not a best idea.
Author:  sprouseod [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
Hi Rod, that's what I was thinking about and that makes since, I didn't realize an end grain joint is not a strong. I kinda figured if this was a possibility someone would already be doing it this way

thanks for answering the question

Richard
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
A double mortice is a different story .. i know a builder who uses a mortice in the neck and body, then glues it all together with a single tenon ....
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
Not a silly question and if I am understanding you, you are talking about what is called a "floating tenon". There is not a problem with end grain as most of this joint is side to side grain. You have to make the mortise deep enough to get enough side grain glue surface. Then only end grain is on the tenon ends. Hesh and I talked about the possibilities of this type of construction once. One advantage might be it would be easier to floss the neck to body joint without a tenon in the way and when perfect glue in the tenon. It might be easier to fabricate depending on your machinery. All and all it is not that hard to cut the neck with a integral tenon. There are many methods and not all of them require extensive jigging.
Good slightly out of the box thinking.
Link
Author:  Phil Marino [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
Link Van Cleave wrote:
Not a silly question and if I am understanding you, you are talking about what is called a "floating tenon". There is not a problem with end grain as most of this joint is side to side grain. You have to make the mortise deep enough to get enough side grain glue surface. Then only end grain is on the tenon ends. Hesh and I talked about the possibilities of this type of construction once. One advantage might be it would be easier to floss the neck to body joint without a tenon in the way and when perfect glue in the tenon. It might be easier to fabricate depending on your machinery. All and all it is not that hard to cut the neck with a integral tenon. There are many methods and not all of them require extensive jigging.
Good slightly out of the box thinking.
Link


Link -

I've always heard it called it a "loose tenon". Must be an east coast - west coast thing.

A biscuit is another form of loose ( or floating) tenon.

Phil
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
Yeah, I have heard it called a loose tenon, floating tenon, spline tenon, and I have probably used all those terms at one time or another.
Festool calls it a domino. The shape of a domino is a pretty good model of the proportions of a loose tenon. Hopefully ones tenons aren't loose, or floating at all. :) Maybe we should call it a perfect fitting double mortise connector.
The one I object to is calling a open mortise and tenon a bridle joint. To me a bridle should be inside the ends of a apron or stretcher but I digress.
Link
Author:  windsurfer [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing the tenon?
I like the idea of a floating tenon joint for the neck. -been doing dovetails and thinking about a switch to M&T. Floating tenon might have enough advantages to push me over the edge.

as in side note, my first instrument was a Uke made from scraps. I build it as a pathfinder for my first guitar to be sure I was confident in a few techniques and tooling (bending, routing binding channels, gluing bindings, fretting) before applying them to the guitar. Plans I had called for a dowel joint at the neck, but when I got to that step I opted to grab the biscuit joiner and used tiny FF biscuits for the joint.

-jd
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/