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Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27166	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Matt Stauffer [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:38 am ]
Post subject:	Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
I bought a really nice large scraper plane from Lie Nielsen (not cheap) with the idea that I can use it to smooth out tops, backs and sides. I watched the Lie Nielsen videos on how to use the scraper planes, but just can't get any kind of a smooth surface with it. I'm ready to send it back, and spend some tool money on something else. Does anyone use a scraper plane for smoothing out tops, sides and backs, or do you just use a card scraper?

Author:	Tom West [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
Matt : Years ago I used a #80 Stanley to do backs and sides. Lots of work but you can get very smooth cut if the blade is sharp.You can also take more material per cut with this scraper as compared to a card scraper. To use a card scraper to thin sides would require Superman thumbs IMO especially if starting from rough sawn material. To use a card scraper to get a good surface on material thinned close to required thickness is not a problem. Tops were done with hand planes and 1/2 sheet sanding blocks to take out high spots from planeing. Now a days we use a thickness sander for b/s plus tops. Have fun. Tom

Author:	Corky Long [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
This may not be what you want to hear, but my Jet 10/20 drum sander is my favorite tool for thinning/smoothing sides, backs, tops, whatever. Fast, precise, and with never have to deal with tearout.

Author:	Stephen Boone [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
I also have a scraper plane (Lee Valley)but cannot get it to work well. I am sure it is operator error but that is another story. I use regular hand planes for thicknessing, clean up with a card scraper, and then sand to about 400 grit. Because of the nature of the materials, tops are harder to deal with using any kind of scraper. I usually go from very fine plane cuts to sanding. If I have ornery wood that is giving me tear out problems then I also revert to the old drum sander. It is less satisfying but effective. On tops I like to thin the perimeter and leave the center thicker so if you use a drum sander and wish to do this you must at some point do some hand work.

Author:	Darrel Friesen [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
If you have the Lie Nielsen, do the following if you haven't already. Try the blade angle at 15% off vertical. To set the blade depth, place the plane sole down on a wood surface. Loosen the blade and apply finger pressure only to it. Tighten it up and scrape away. I've found this works for most woods. You may want to very slightly ease the corners of the blade to minimize tracks.

Author:	Link Van Cleave [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
Scraping softwoods is a hard thing to do. On soft woods you can do much better with a hand plane. A hand plane will give a much better surface as well. In fact with softwoods you will do better with a shallower angled plane iron. 42°. The steeper the angle the more you are moving to a scraping cut and this doesn't work as well for softwoods. I saw some electron microscope pictures once that showed a scraped surface wasn't any finer than 220 sandpaper. As Todd said you can't tell the difference between a ROS surface and a scraped one. This is really true for a guitar where most likely the wood will be pore filled and have a film on top type of finish. A flat piece of wood about the size of a large hand plane with with handles and some self stick sandpaper could make short work of thicknessing and or smoothing top woods and also work for back and sides although a bit more work. Scraping back and sides will work much better than working the top that way. I would use this as a follow up to a hand plane session if needing to thickness as well as smooth. A hand plane can get more work done in a shorter amount of time and effort than a scraper. A sanding block as I described can be used to follow up a plane as well. A ROS has the advantage of dust collection. A cross hatching of pencil lines on the wood is a good way to get visual feed back to your sanding and keep things even. On another note. A hand planed surface on the right woods and in certain types of woodwork with a "in the wood type finish" as opposed to a film on top finish can be seen and felt. I love this type of surface for furniture and use it "when" ever possible, but not for a guitar. A bit of scattered information, hopefully some of it is on point. Link

Author:	JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
Matt- Lots of good info above. First, if I were in your shoes (with my budget) I would return the scraper plane. Great tools but limited usefulness, IMO. First, as you know, there is a difference between smoothing and levelling/thicknessing. (You can get a smooth but wavy surface pretty easily.) I thicknessed a few rosewood sides and backs with a card scraper when I started building (hot work- thick gloves needed) and I wouldn't recommend it. It takes a lot of attention to get a level surface and constant thickness with a card scraper-this is one issue that the scraper 'plane' tries to address. My recommendations: For thicknessing & levelling- v. sharp plane or thickness sander (some folks apparently use Safe-T planer for thicknessing, but I haven't used it on thin stock (scary)) or hard sanding block with coarse paper. For smoothing backs/sides -ROS sander For smoothing tops- hand (hard) sanding block. Card scrapers are very handy for scraping down rosettes, binding, knots and swirls, etc Cheers John

Author:	Matt Stauffer [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
Thanks a bunch guys. It's a very nice tool, but like you guys mentioned, probably not very good for guitar work. I was trying it out on a piece of pine board I have laying around and all it wanted to do was tear out or chatter. I'm going to send it back and get a Stanley #80. I am in the process of buying a house and have to lay off on the tool buying for a while. Got to get a mower and weedeater and other exciting homeowner stuff like that. Can't wait to get out of this townhouse (renting) and into a real house that I can set up shop in.

Author:	JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Can I use a scraper plane to smooth out tops, sides, backs?
Matt- Scraping softwoods like pine is a pretty tough test for any scraper, but I still agree with your decision to pass on the scraper plane. John

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