Charles Fox uses a butt joint bolt on and he's been building for over 40 years. I use it as well according to the way I was taught by him. If it's good enough for the jig master, it's good enough for me!
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| Dreadnaught Neck Joint http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27164 |
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| Author: | Chad Thorne [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
So I bought this Washburn body off Ebay. No neck, but otherwise all there. I want to get a Martin-style neck w/dovetail joint to put on there; I'd rather not buy an additional bunch of tools from StewMac, like templates, etc.I probably won't use again. Where can I get info on how to cut a a dovetail mortise in a heel block the old-fashioned way? BTW, I have many years of woodworking experience (even got paid for it!) so I do have a good array of the usual tools - chisels, planes, etc. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
My guess is that in the good old days, the dovetail in the body was cut before the top and back were glued on .. that way they could simply cut it with a back saw. Mark it out and start hoggin it out ... drill out most of the waste, and then clean up the sides with a chisel .. will be tricky at the dovetail bottom ... IMO ..use a bolt on .... |
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| Author: | Chad Thorne [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
Mmmm...I'm all for easy, but tend to be a bit of a Luddite sometimes. My gut tells me that a bolt-on, with or without tenon, would not be as stable and secure as a dovetail joint. Please tell me if/why my gut is wrong. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
Chad - Many of the top end builders (some on this forum) have shifted to a bolt on M&T joint. Take a look at Bill Cumpiano's website which has a very thorough discussion of the relative strengths of the M&T bolton. In short. he's using it and has concluded that it's very strong. I also offer a vote for a bolt on M&T. I'm a relative novice - and struggle with getting the angle right on a dovetail - with a bolt on M&T neck you have multiple tries to adjust the neck angle (minor changes). After 4 guitars with dovetails, I've concluded, never again. It's a very challenging joint to get very tight when the precise angle is very important. |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
Charles Fox uses a butt joint bolt on and he's been building for over 40 years. I use it as well according to the way I was taught by him. If it's good enough for the jig master, it's good enough for me!
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
Definitely another vote for mortice and tenon neck joints. |
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| Author: | Chad Thorne [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
K. Do you glue the joint, or just bolt it on dry? |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
Typically bolt-on's are dry joints. Here are a couple of takes on bolt-on's from Yamamoto and Taylor. Attachment: Yamamoto_1-Adjustable.jpg Attachment: taylorjoint01.jpg
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| Author: | lactose [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
I had never imagined anyone did a bolted butt joint with no tenon. I just might try it on my current build. |
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| Author: | gerry [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
Hi Chad and all, To your original question on the 'how-to' dove tail, check out this link. Quite informative. http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/luthierie/guitarmaking_guide/dovetail_joint/dovetail_joint.html Hope I've entered it all right. I've muddled my way through a couple of these with just dovetail saw and chisels, so it's not as daunting as some think. I think everyone should try one. As to a completely tennonless neck joint, I wonder how a newbie builder like myself would explain it to a potential future customer, paying a high end price? Perhaps I could make a case for 'good enough' - but superior? Gerry |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dreadnaught Neck Joint |
gerry wrote: As to a completely tennonless neck joint, I wonder how a newbie builder like myself would explain it to a potential future customer, paying a high end price? Perhaps I could make a case for 'good enough' - but superior? Gerry Ask Taylor, or Mario Proulx how they deal with these questions! (I'm sure the list of builders using bolts without tenons is quite long...) I built a couple with tenons+ bolts, and a couple with dovetails - never again. It's bolt-on butt joint from now on. If I wanted a non-bolt solution, I'd probably go for a loose tenon. Cheers John |
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