I have a friend who needs a refret every 6 -9 months (very tight grip)
, do stainless frets wear the strings out faster?Thanks,
Jeff
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| Author: | Jeff Struck [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Stainless steal frets |
I have a friend who needs a refret every 6 -9 months (very tight grip) , do stainless frets wear the strings out faster?Thanks, Jeff |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
They might, I have not noticed an issue on mine. Strings are cheaper than frets. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Jeff Struck wrote: do stainless frets wear the strings out faster? Thanks, Jeff As Steve indicated they may and it seems to depend on the individual player and how heavy handed that they are. SS frets will damage some tools - fret nippers can be ruined by them and non-diamond files can be worn smooth very quickly. I know a repair guy who charges a premium to work stainless to help defray the cost of ruined tools..... |
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| Author: | Jeff Struck [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
I thought SS would wear strings quicker, the added cost of installing the SS would prob be cheaper in the long run. I did a refret last september and its getting close to needing another one. As Steve said "strings are cheaper than a refret" Jeff |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
I haven't done stainless, but would it help avoid string wear to be meticulous about polishing the newly installed frets? If something is smooth, it is not abrasive even if hard. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Geeesh, who leaves strings on long enough to worry about fret wear 
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
SteveSmith wrote: Geeesh, who leaves strings on long enough to worry about fret wear My thought exactly. SS frets can be made verrry smooth - I would think they would wear strings out less than conventional frets. Jeff, the SS advantage is that Strings wear the SS Frets less than conventional frets of course. |
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| Author: | Jeff Struck [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Good points everyone, I'll recommend SS to him the next time around. Jeff |
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| Author: | SteveG [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
I've seen this thread a few times here, and each time there are a few people that worry that stainless steel frets might make the strings wear faster, and a few people who have tried them and find that they don't seem to. I'd like to suggest that the stainless steel will wear your strings less or slower. When dealing with abrasives a softer abrasive cuts faster than a hard one.Think Japanese waterstones vs. Arkansas whetstones. The main complaints with working with stainless are that it's hard on tools and that the stiffness/hardness makes it kind of a pain. cheers |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
I just got some stainless from Shane at HighMountain to use on my next two and the advice I've received from the folks who've been using it is to be very careful to try and seat the frets so they will require little or no leveling. Pressing the frets in was recommended. We use a lot of stainless in my day job so I'm familiar with the effect on edged tools. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Stainless frets last alot longer for sure, but your friend might not like the tin can sound of his guitar with them. 
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| Author: | Jeff Struck [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Do SS frets make a big difference in the sound? |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Hey Mark, maybe that's the reason why my guitars sound like crap  Stainless steel frets will not change the sound. However, SS frets require excellent fretting skills. It is easy to have the ends not seat correctly and I imagine that they would be problematic with refrets for this very reason. An improperly seated fret will affect the sound and you guessed it -- sound tinny!!! You will not notice a tonal change when switching to stainless steel if your fretting skills are adequate. Also, as long as the frets are nicely polished they will not wear out strings any faster. I don't see my guitars needing a refret or leveling -- ever. To me that is a huge improvement over normal wire and a massive benefit to the player. Yes, it is more difficult to work with but not significantly so. However, if you fretting skills are not excellent -- they will most likely be a nightmare to use and could result in poor tone if you don't get them seated correctly. Some advise with SS frets -- use an arbor press. Also, glue in your frets (I use Titebond and make certain that there is a fair amount in the fret slots before pushing in the frets). Repair folks don't like this but you won't ever need a refret -- possibly a fret leveling decades later if the player is just brutal on his frets. Make sure that the frets are radiused more than the fretboard. Once your frets are in -- use a deadblow hammer to crimp the ends down over the fretboard before you clip the ends -- I find this really keeps the fret ends seated beautifully. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Jeff Struck wrote: Do SS frets make a big difference in the sound? Yes they do.It's not because they are seated wrong to the fretboard.That's why you don't see stainless saddles. They sometimes use a soft metal such as brass, but never stainless because of it's hardness.It's the hardness that's causeing the tin can sound.Brass instruments aren't stainless because of that as well.Even regular frets have a copper/ nickel mixture to soften the alloy to give better tone. That's why they wear so much. 
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Mark Groza wrote: Jeff Struck wrote: Do SS frets make a big difference in the sound? Yes they do.It's not because they are seated wrong to the fretboard.That's why you don't see stainless saddles. They sometimes use a soft metal such as brass, but never stainless because of it's hardness.It's the hardness that's causeing the tin can sound.Brass instruments aren't stainless because of that as well.Even regular frets have a copper/ nickel mixture to soften the alloy to give better tone. That's why they wear so much. Mark...how many players or instruments have you personally witnessed a sudden tinny tone change after using SS frets on acoustic guitars? Your claim goes against quite a few pros (builders and players) who have the numbers to credibly claim otherwise. No offense...but such a dogmatic statement not only shuts off objective discussion but also just begs for evidence. I have no claim to support either position regarding tone. I have installed SS on 3 guitars but can only advocate the installation process and report the measurable aesthetic improvement I perceived for now. I'm really trying to do sufficient due diligence related to sonic performance before coming to a conclusion, but I need evidence. Your statement provided confusion in my mind when you began adding saddle and other instruments as your proof, so I'm respectfully asking that we keep the testing and evaluation to frets and guitars only. BTW...Simon is one of those pros who actually has proof for his position. ...and I know for a fact that his guitars are highly acclaimed for superb workmanship as well as tone. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Stainless frets may sound tinny.... if as Simon suggests the builder lacks the chops to install the frets in a manner where they are not loose.... SInce these days everyone is an expert and self appointed.... Loothier it's possible that one's negative experience with a tinny sounding SS fretted guitar actually resulted from the frets being loose. I personally know a Luthier who tried a builder's guitar with loose SS frets and he had to hand the guitar back to the builder as unplayable. The builder was oblivious and a victim of the old you don't know what you don't know thing.... IMHO when considering tone and the impact, if any, on tone of SS frets I believe that the burden of proof since SS frets on acoustics is relatively a new thing is on the proponents of SS frets. As for me I played SS frets for years on a Parker Fly and liked them very much. But that was an electric and a very different animal from what I am building these days. |
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| Author: | Jeff Struck [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Thank for the input everyone, I like the fact that Simon has used SS and believes they may never need to replaced. This guy wears out fret every 9 months. I am kinda new to this and would hate mess up his guitar. I guess I'll be doing some practice boards first  Jeff |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
I'm not the only one that feels stainless frets are tinny or to bright sounding.[url]http:www.edroman.com/techarticles/stainlessfrets.htm[/url] |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Ed Roman!?!?! He uses Adamantium frets. They must be better than stainless steel, afterall they're named after an insect superhero. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Mark Groza wrote: I'm not the only one that feels stainless frets are tinny or to bright sounding.[url]http:www.edroman.com/techarticles/stainlessfrets.htm[/url] Sorry, but this isn't even close to shedding light on the issue. This is the second time Ed Roman was brought up to denounce the use of SS based on his opinions related to Electric Guitars. There's only one problem...we're discussing acoustics and he has zero credibility with respect to acoustics...still. Check out the archived thread on SS Frets from last year...I suppose next year we'll be doing it all over again! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23985&p=326759&hilit=stainless+steel+frets#p326759 Well, I only have 2 guitars completed and one in progress with SS frets and nobody hears a difference...but they sure feel better and are a marked improvement in luster and wear over nickel-silver. Admittedly, 2 guitars don't represent statistical relevance but it is encouraging. |
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
JJ can you describe the 'feel' part of it? I would be interested to hear Simon's take on this aspect too. I'm considering it...but re-tooling needs to take place first. Chris |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
JJ Donohue wrote: Mark Groza wrote: I'm not the only one that feels stainless frets are tinny or to bright sounding.[url]http:www.edroman.com/techarticles/stainlessfrets.htm[/url] Sorry, but this isn't even close to shedding light on the issue. This is the second time Ed Roman was brought up to denounce the use of SS based on his opinions related to Electric Guitars. There's only one problem...we're discussing acoustics and he has zero credibility with respect to acoustics...still. Check out the archived thread on SS Frets from last year...I suppose next year we'll be doing it all over again! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23985&p=326759&hilit=stainless+steel+frets#p326759 Well, I only have 2 guitars completed and one in progress with SS frets and nobody hears a difference...but they sure feel better and are a marked improvement in luster and wear over nickel-silver. Admittedly, 2 guitars don't represent statistical relevance but it is encouraging. Ed Roman's credibility is questionable regardless, although he is a fun read. |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
There are very few facts when it comes to tone. You should only take my comments for what they are -- an opinion. Several years ago I was debating switching to stainless steel frets. I was intensely aware of the "they sound tinny" comments and tried to approach the various opinions with an open mind. Here's my conclusion based on years of work with SS frets on steel string guitars. 1) The frets do not significantly alter the sound. If they have an effect it is very minor. I noticed absolutely NO difference when I switched to SS frets. 2) If they have a big effect, then I believe the installation is to blame. I do believe there are definitely some legitimate claims regarding SS refrets that have made a person's guitar sound worse. 3) I believe every bit of this "tonal inferiority" is coming from guitar techs that either don't want to work with SS frets or don't have the skills to work SS frets. There is no doubt about it -- normal fretwire does not take as much skill to install correctly. You need to have decent fretting chops to succeed with SS frets. 4) No offense to Ed Roman -- but I approach his comments with a MASSIVE amount of skepticism -- much the same way I would approach a conversation with a used car salesman. |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Hi Mark, just to clarify a few things. Normal fretwire is the hardness it is because of workability reasons. It was made as hard as possible but still easy enough to cut, level, crown, and polish. Bone is used for nuts and saddles because of its workability as well. Who would want to make a saddle out of stainless steel or even brass? -- way to much work and also would be too heavy. The saddle has a very different role in a guitar than either the nut or frets. Bone is lightweight, has great workability, and is good at sound transmission -- perfect for saddles. From a pure mechanical perspective, I just can't see how the frets would effect the tone. Saddle Material / Bridge Wood / Strings -- these are much greater contributors to tone. Okay, that's it for me regarding this thread. Best of luck to the OP in his decision. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stainless steal frets |
Chris...To me, feel seems to be enhanced based upon the smoothness and lower coefficient of friction of the polished SS frets. My hand and fingers seem to move better over the frets. I've also heard others describe this similarly and is purely subjective. |
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