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Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27080		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Corky Long [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
I may have a line on an old Steinway piano, that needs a lot of work. I haven't seen it yet, but first preference would be to fix it. If that's simply not practical, I'm wondering what I can expect from the woods (and ivories) inside the piano. Is it reasonable to assume there's usable guitar wood in this old piano? Thanks.
Author:  John A [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
I have seen similar threads like this already one here. I think the consensus is that there is not much usable wood. I am sure you can get wood for binding and small parts. I believe most if not all pianos are laminated wood anyway.

Being a Steinway - I guess restoring - using you luthier skills would be the way to go. You can then resell and make a profit to buy more wood for guitars.
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
The Steinway soundboards are pretty much all Sitka spruce. The box sides were made from a core of hard maple and a variety of laminates. Mostly mahogany. Not sure how thick the edges are but the sound boards are tapered from 9 - 6mm. I'm guessing the box edges are much thicker but that's a guess. I talked with a local dealer to see if things have changed over the years. Not much, he said.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
Corky, John,

I have a friend who's a piano technician. From him I've learned that restoration on a piano's internals can run well into five figures, and can be highly technical. Just a heads up.

According to him, soundboards might yield some spruce, but are often glued up from narrower pieces than we're used to using, and probably wouldn't meet most builders' (and customers') cosmetic standards.

Pat
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
If you are curious about the innerds of a piano -- go take a trip to the local thrift stores... You will find a multitude of pianos in all states of disrepair that you can inspect to understand the construction.

Pianos have been made mostly out of Laminates (plywood) for a really long time now.... They just have to be to be stable enough so they don't split, and so they can hold the 5-million lbs of cast iron and steel that makes up the frame and strings.
The only "solid" wood pieces are things like:
Soundboard
Small trim pieces

Even the keys -- The "Ivories" are frequently ivory veneers over some sort of miscellaneous wood core.... or Ivoroid veneers..

Then -- what would you do with the giant cast iron frame and zillion strings?

Better to sell the piano and then use the proceeds to buy Guitar zoot!

Thanks

John
Author:  Michael Smith [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
I believe the piano idea has merit but there are downsides. Older pianos very likely have lead containing finishes. So you will need to test for lead and handle accordingly. Many older clear finishes contained lead. Getting rid of the harp wouldn't be too hard. You could bust it up with a sledge hammer and take out all your frustrations. There was a short period of time that piano harps were made of aluminum after WW2. Those could result in a few bucks recycled. I have looked at pianos with sinister thoughts in mind and decided that the baby grad I was looking at had almost zero useable wood in it. I have seen pianos that did have a lot of good wood. In that case solid walnut. That piano had almost no veneer in it. That one seemed to be made in the 1940s.

I was keen on the piano busting idea but after figuring all the time and expense of picking up a piano. Taking it apart. Dealing with finished wood, likely with lead containing products, it just wasn't worth it. I would like to have some ivory toped keys to inlay but I'm sure I will be able to pry them off some forlorn piano without have to deal with the rest of it.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
Soundboard and bracing can yield a good amount of bracing material. Soundboards are usually 3/8" thick (about) and bracing can look like 2 x 3's, most often low grade (in the guitar world) sitka. The case and legs are almost always laminated stock with nice veneers, so pretty useless unless you like poplar and maple. The work required to dismantle the beast and get some half useful scraps puts it in the "never" category for me.
Ivory keys can be great to save for inlays, but if you know a piano repairman he probably has drawers and drawers of it he'll be glad to offload.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
Unless that Steinway has been in a fire or flood, it should be worth restoring.

None of the woods used in pianos is of guitar grade.
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
The tops on my first two guitars were made with spruce from an old free piano I got. I was trying to keep things cheap for my first couple projects. Like someone else mentioned, the soundboards are made with narrow pieces glued together, but that doesn't bother me. Also the color can be different than we're used to. If the color is a problem, just use it for black tops. :D

The one I got was an upright, and the two legs turned out to be solid mahogany, which I'm using on my next build. [:Y:]

It only took a few hours to completely dismantle the piano, and having done it once, I could do it a lot faster next time, and end up with more usable material.

One good thing about using spruce from an old, well used piano is that the wood has already opened up. Theoretically, anyway.

Image
Author:  Corky Long [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
Thanks, all. Good input.

Howard, I still haven't seen it, but restoration would certainly be my preference. What it really comes down to (as to whether I get into it at all....) is the practicality of removing the piano from where it is at the moment. I'll keep you posted.
Author:  efialtis [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Usable guitar wood in old pianos?
I recently saw a two hour program on the making of a Steinway.The selection process for the sound board was not nearly as rigorous as it is in lutherie and I would not consider recycling the sound board as an option.The thing that impressed me the most was the attention given to the set up, which combined with the multiple tunings,can take up to a year to perfect.After seeing the the amount of time spent on adjusting the hardness of the felt hammers ,I can see why it costs so much to re-build a worn out piano.
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