Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Mahogany replacement (neck wood)

Hi!

What would you think is the best alternative for the CITES listed mahoganies for necks?

Thank you!

Cuban mahogany, African mahogany, sapele, butternut, cherry, black walnut etc.

Cuban mahogany has been CITES listed for a long long time, well before Swietenia macrophylla in 1993, but is viewed as being "commercially extinct". Most supplies come from very old stock (the last set I used was imported into the UK in 1913) or are platation grown.

Dave White wrote:

Dave, it seems that Cuban is regularly available from huricane blown trees. It also grows in Florida. Like Honduran it seems that the old(er) stock is darker and generally better looking.

fingerstyle1978 wrote:

I love rare exotic woods (especially for backs and sides) but I have often wondered why so few people use maple for acoustic necks? It's very stable and readily available here in the states and can be visually stunning. I'm sure there is a reason that I am unaware of, such as difficulty in color matching, weight or something of that nature. I've seen a few, just not nearly as many as those that are matched to the B&S's. Usually a maple neck means maple B&S.

Maple is not a "stable" wood, not even close. It is also much harder to carve than Mahogany and much heavier. Also denser woods have more power so when they do move they can take "things" with them. None of the other woods you mention are as stable as Mahogany. It is too bad we weren't more careful with Mahogany, it has some great properties. Very stable, one of the best, fairly light but not too light or soft, easy to work, takes stain well, rot resistant , machines well, etc. It is one of the kings of wood for sure.
Before anyone gets their feathers up I am not saying to never use Maple on a neck or that it is a bad wood. As with all woods a really nice straight piece of any wood is better than a leaner or twisted less than perfect piece of another wood. Also the best wood poorly worked is not too great either.
As Laurent mentioned there are a host of woods to make a decent neck out of. I have always wondered about Alder, Cherry, maybe some of the softer Maples. I have plenty of Mahogany so I won't be checking any of those out soon though.

Link

fingerstyle1978 wrote:

Link

Author:	Sondre [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:04 am ]
Post subject:	Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Hi! What would you think is the best alternative for the CITES listed mahoganies for necks? Thank you!

Author:	Alan [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Sondre wrote: Hi! What would you think is the best alternative for the CITES listed mahoganies for necks? Thank you! Spanish Cedar is one option. I recall a thread a while back on this topic. I did a quick search, but didn't turn it up. I must admit that I didn't spend a lot of time on the search, but perhaps you will have more luck.

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Cuban mahogany, African mahogany, sapele, butternut, cherry, black walnut etc.

Author:	John Lewis [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Sapele, Khaya, Sipo, Spanish Cedar, Cherry, Walnut of various types including Butternut, Port Orford Cedar and Alaskan Yellow Cedar. Most of these are easy to come across except for PO cedar and AY cedar. Sapele and Spanish Cedar are probably the two best candidates - they look like mahogany and are readily available from most tonewood sellers or hardwood sellers. I'm sure people will list other woods.

Author:	Dave White [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Laurent Brondel wrote: Cuban mahogany, African mahogany, sapele, butternut, cherry, black walnut etc. Cuban mahogany has been CITES listed for a long long time, well before Swietenia macrophylla in 1993, but is viewed as being "commercially extinct". Most supplies come from very old stock (the last set I used was imported into the UK in 1913) or are platation grown.

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Author:	Sondre [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Thanks for the input! I thought about Sapele, but I think it seems rather heavy. Isn't Spanish Cedar (Cedrela odorata) also listed..? http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml I would think that stability is a very important property to look for. Are there any alternatives that stand out with respect to stability? Thanks! Sondre

Author:	fingerstyle1978 [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
I love rare exotic woods (especially for backs and sides) but I have often wondered why so few people use maple for acoustic necks? It's very stable and readily available here in the states and can be visually stunning. I'm sure there is a reason that I am unaware of, such as difficulty in color matching, weight or something of that nature. I've seen a few, just not nearly as many as those that are matched to the B&S's. Usually a maple neck means maple B&S. For example, would a guitar with the following look bad: Spruce top/ (insert exotic species) B&S/ flamed maple binding with Flamed Maple neck, Ebony fingerboard, (insert exotic species) binding, (insert exotic species) headstock I don't think so. But I guess in the end it's all about what the buyers want, and they tend to stick to tradition, although many don't really care what the neck is made of as long as it matches the sides. A couple other moderate to stiff American varieties I've wondered about: Cypress Hickory Cherry Black Walnut Gum

Author:	Link Van Cleave [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
[quote="fingerstyle1978"]I love rare exotic woods (especially for backs and sides) but I have often wondered why so few people use maple for acoustic necks? It's very stable and readily available here in the states and can be visually stunning. I'm sure there is a reason that I am unaware of, such as difficulty in color matching, weight or something of that nature. I've seen a few, just not nearly as many as those that are matched to the B&S's. Usually a maple neck means maple B&S. Maple is not a "stable" wood, not even close. It is also much harder to carve than Mahogany and much heavier. Also denser woods have more power so when they do move they can take "things" with them. None of the other woods you mention are as stable as Mahogany. It is too bad we weren't more careful with Mahogany, it has some great properties. Very stable, one of the best, fairly light but not too light or soft, easy to work, takes stain well, rot resistant , machines well, etc. It is one of the kings of wood for sure. Before anyone gets their feathers up I am not saying to never use Maple on a neck or that it is a bad wood. As with all woods a really nice straight piece of any wood is better than a leaner or twisted less than perfect piece of another wood. Also the best wood poorly worked is not too great either. As Laurent mentioned there are a host of woods to make a decent neck out of. I have always wondered about Alder, Cherry, maybe some of the softer Maples. I have plenty of Mahogany so I won't be checking any of those out soon though. Link

Author:	Alexandru Marian [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Spanish cedar is very very stable and ridiculously easy to work with, but often it is quite low density, not a bit heavier than heavy spruce! I've measured from 460 to 550Kg/m3, being under 500 very often. My point is that it is a great neck wood for classicals, but for a SS you need to search for the denser stock and likely use some reinforcements too. It can well be described as a spongier mahogany. I don't have experience with large hog pieces but most cedar neck blanks I handled had a musical quality when tapped.

Author:	the Padma [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
This question comes up every so often and you get all the same usual answers, all except BIRCH Yes good old birch, just like all them old Gibson pre war necks. Birch! Cheap like borsch, tools and bends easy, takes a real nice stain, closed grain, just about as hard as Maple and is often mistaken for maple. Birch. blessings the Padma

Author:	Tim L [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Black Limba is pretty close to Mahogany in weight, density and texture. Used alot in electrics and no reason it can't be used in acoustics also. I have one piece bought for a neck blank. Color may be a problem for some woods but there is a large range and there is also White Limba and both are readily available. The piece I have should look good paired with Myrtle, Ziricote, AB, or an Ebony. IMHO worth looking into especially since good Mahogany is hard to find. Tim

Author:	Robert Renick [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Our sponsor http://www.pacificcoastwoods.net/ has POC, works very nicely and Vince's prices are quite reasonable. I just carved a neck with POC and it looks great, not strung up yet though. Rob

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Dave White wrote: Cuban mahogany has been CITES listed for a long long time, well before Swietenia macrophylla in 1993, but is viewed as being "commercially extinct". Most supplies come from very old stock (the last set I used was imported into the UK in 1913) or are platation grown. Dave, it seems that Cuban is regularly available from huricane blown trees. It also grows in Florida. Like Honduran it seems that the old(er) stock is darker and generally better looking.

Author:	Dave White [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Laurent Brondel wrote: Dave White wrote: Cuban mahogany has been CITES listed for a long long time, well before Swietenia macrophylla in 1993, but is viewed as being "commercially extinct". Most supplies come from very old stock (the last set I used was imported into the UK in 1913) or are platation grown. Dave, it seems that Cuban is regularly available from huricane blown trees. It also grows in Florida. Like Honduran it seems that the old(er) stock is darker and generally better looking. Laurent, Lucky you is all that I can say

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Author:	Arnt Rian [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Mahogany replacement (neck wood)
Sondre, are you asking because you'd like to use another wood than mahogany for necks, or because you can't find any in your area? You can still find old mahogany boards for sale here and there in this country, you know...