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| Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26958 |
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| Author: | enalnitram [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
So I read in Allen St John's book about how Wayne Henderson does this. I've seen the finished result, but I'm just not grasping how to do it accurately and consistently. You can see the saw blade marks on this neck, where the tenon was cut.  And in the following image you can see where both passes on the table saw left a little criss cross shape at the bottom of the neck block.  Do any of you do it, or know how? Post a picture, pretty please? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
From what I can see .. the whole trick is in the accuracy of two sliding sleds .. one for the neck, and one for the block. The blade only tilts one way on a table saw, so you need something that registers the neck and the block in two separate, but 180 degree reversed positions, for each side of the cut. Honestly, a router and a couple simple plexi patterns would be easier ... |
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| Author: | enalnitram [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
It's pretty simple to see how this was done, in theory. what I'm wondering about is how to move the neck in actual practice, positioned as it needs to be, up on it's end, in order to make the cut. in the book he talks about a little piece of angled mahogany. I can't believe that Wayne just holds this next to the block and passes it thru. seems to me it's got to be affixed to it somehow. |
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| Author: | crow-duck [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
What is the book by Allen St. John that you refer to? |
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| Author: | enalnitram [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
crow-duck wrote: What is the book by Allen St. John that you refer to? http://www.amazon.com/Claptons-Guitar-W ... 025&sr=1-1 |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
It can't be real accurate I can see the shims in the photo. Fred |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
My question is, why would you want to?  It's far more accurate to cut by hand with a good dovetail or Japanese saw and a chisel. Much safer too. I also noticed the shims, if you really desire to do it on a power saw, you can make a much simpler jig and do so with a band saw. Even better yet, make a simple router jig and rout it. William Cumpiano cuts his (or at least used to) on a table saw and the practice looks too precarious and dangerous to me.
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| Author: | enalnitram [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
Bill Hodge wrote: My question is, why would you want to? It's far more accurate to cut by hand with a good dovetail or Japanese saw and a chisel. Much safer too. I also noticed the shims, if you really desire to do it on a power saw, you can make a much simpler jig and do so with a band saw. Even better yet, make a simple router jig and rout it. William Cumpiano cuts his (or at least used to) on a table saw and the practice looks too precarious and dangerous to me.You guys are probably right. If it seemed doable and accurate for the most part, I wanted to try it. but those templates at stew mac are just so dang expensive. |
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| Author: | enalnitram [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
I got the full scoop on Wayne's method via email just a bit ago. "The trick is to use a finish saw blade. The blade on that saw is a 7-1/4" plywood cutting blade with very little curf. You surely would not want to try this with a big tooth 10" blade. That would be dangerous." "We nailed some small nails, 3 penny or smaller into the blocks and then snipped them off leaving about a heavy 16th of an inch sticking out...then sharpened that with a file. The blocks are then pressed by hand into the neck blank." "the first cut is a 15 degree cut. You can see the jig in the photo. Wayne made that on the spot. There are two identical pieces one for each side." http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_En-9Zy8jJW8/S ... G_1957.JPG http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_En-9Zy8jJW8/S ... G_1959.JPG http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_En-9Zy8jJW8/S ... G_1960.JPG "For this cut the saw is set on 2.5 degrees." http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_En-9Zy8jJW8/S ... G_1964.JPG http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_En-9Zy8jJW8/S ... G_1963.JPG http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_En-9Zy8jJW8/S ... G_1965.JPG |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
Todd Stock wrote: I don't think hand tools are more accurate, so much as they are safer in use than the technique shown. Todd you are correct, it was a bit of a mis-statement on my part. I should have said 'very' rather than 'more' accurate. It requires much practice and skill to do with excellence by hand which I tend to take for granted given my years of experience. I was thinking more along the line of safety (if not just to keep from destroying a neck). Martin, I really like the new Icon you've selected! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
Quote: Fred - those shims are a pretty standard...every neck reset I have done requires them, and a surprising number of guitars in for a first-time reset already have them. Wayne is relying on the heel taper to provide the correct set-back angle, and if not correct off the saw, it's quicker to shim than cut the socket or the tail oversize to accomodate neck angle tweaks. I realize what the shims accomplish and had to use them on my 1st couple guitars until I got the hang of neck setting. I am just surprised that Wayne would need them on a new build after the number of guitars he has done. I think the template guide and router bits like StewMac sells and a router fixture such as the Simpson I purchased would be more accurate and repeatable. As for the safety aspect I have a healthy fear of the table saw and give it a lot of respect up to the point of using alternative methods and tools when ever possible. By the way Clapton's Guitar is a wonderful read and my copy has been read by quite a few of my friends. A similar book "The Violin Maker by John Marchese" about Sam Zygmuntowicz building a violin for Eugene Drucker of the Emerson String Quartet. Fred Fred |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making dovetail mortise/tenon with a table saw |
Martin: If your looking for a smooth cutting small diameter blade try the Freud Diablo as recommended by Grumpy.(Mario where ars you ? Come back, we miss you.) |
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