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Question about Padauk
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Author:  coke_zero [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Question about Padauk
I have recently bought some Padauk for a back & sides set which I got off an old friend as he was never going to use it. I have been told that it oxidises over time to a darker colour. To what degree does this happen? I've heard Purpleheart does the same and can turn a dirty brown. Does Padauk do the same?

I have also heard it can be a pain to work with, but fairly easy to bend. Any advice in general for what I'm likely to have issues with and also any thoughts on what thickness I should be aiming for for the back and sides? I'm aware all sets are different, but any rough ideas to get me in the ballpark would be great.

Thanks all [:Y:]
Author:  Randolph [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Yes it does turn a brown color. There will be none of the vermillion red color left after it oxidizes. There is nothing I know of to prevent this.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
I find it to fade somewhat over the years, but still keeps the rusty hue somewhat. The flute on the left is Padauk and is 4 years old.The ones next to it for comparison left to right are Mahogany, babinga,zirikote,Mahogany, and yellowheart. Notice how the yellowheart has gotten darker as well.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
All woods eventually end up brown. Get over it. pfft

I've found that padauk can retain it's red color for quite a long time under a good coat of varnish: most of them have UV blockers I believe, and I think that's what does the trick.

The padauk I've worked with (all from the same plank) had stiffness, density, and damping properties right in the same ballpark as Brazilian rosewood. The padauk harp guitar I built recently for the MIMF '$100 Challenge' turned out to have a really sweet and clear sound. How much of that is from the harp, and how much from the wood, is hard to say, but I think the wood had a lot to do with it.

The big down side of padauk is that it's so splitty. I found that putting masking tape, pulled tight, across the ends of the side and back pieces as I worked with them seemed to help a lot in keeping things together.

The other down side of it is that while you're working with it _everything_ in your shop will be pink. The color seems at least somewhat water soluble, so _don't_ use a damp cloth to raise the grain before putting on finish. The first coat will make it fuzz up, but it will also seal in the color, and you can sand off the fuzzies and get a good surface without spreading the color all over the place. The first guitar I made with padauk ended up with a pink spruce top, and it was a real pain to get it cleaned up.
Author:  coke_zero [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
I've done some reading around and from what I have read it describes it loses its potent red colour but keeps a nice reddish/purple hue. Has anyone made a guitar from Padauk or got one several years old for comparison? I've been told if I want a bright red looking guitar in the future I should look at bloodwood as this doesn't lose the colour.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
If i wanted a bright red guitar to stay that way, i would tint the shellac seal coat with red then finish the guitar.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Bloodwood will darken quite a bit. It will retain a very red color but not like freshly cut. On my monitor it looks a lot like the broad banner stripes on the background of The Official Luthiers Forum header. Padauk if not Andaman will turn anything from a pleasent brown to a not so pleasent baby s*** brown. Purple heart will eventually go to a almost not too bad purple brown and not fast enough for my tastes.
And as Alan so eloquently put it, all wood will turn brown eventually, or gray I might add.
Link
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Padauk is splintery too? D***.
I recently found a source of veneer and thought I could replace bloodwood in my rosettes and purfling since it is so splintery :(
Author:  coke_zero [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Alan Carruth wrote:
All woods eventually end up brown. Get over it. pfft

I've found that padauk can retain it's red color for quite a long time under a good coat of varnish: most of them have UV blockers I believe, and I think that's what does the trick.

The padauk I've worked with (all from the same plank) had stiffness, density, and damping properties right in the same ballpark as Brazilian rosewood. The padauk harp guitar I built recently for the MIMF '$100 Challenge' turned out to have a really sweet and clear sound. How much of that is from the harp, and how much from the wood, is hard to say, but I think the wood had a lot to do with it.

The big down side of padauk is that it's so splitty. I found that putting masking tape, pulled tight, across the ends of the side and back pieces as I worked with them seemed to help a lot in keeping things together.

The other down side of it is that while you're working with it _everything_ in your shop will be pink. The color seems at least somewhat water soluble, so _don't_ use a damp cloth to raise the grain before putting on finish. The first coat will make it fuzz up, but it will also seal in the color, and you can sand off the fuzzies and get a good surface without spreading the color all over the place. The first guitar I made with padauk ended up with a pink spruce top, and it was a real pain to get it cleaned up.


Thanks for the info. What sort of thickness would you recommend before bending this stuff? My friend said it is between walnut and EIR in difficulty.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
coke_zero wrote:
What sort of thickness would you recommend before bending this stuff? My friend said it is between walnut and EIR in difficulty.


I have a padauk set in the woodpile, so will be watching for the answer to this!
EIR and (American black) walnut are two of the easier-bending woods I've come across- your padauk could be a test of that friendship!

Cheers
John
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
I've built two Padauk guitars ,filled with zpoxy overcoated with nitro and have found that it retained about 90 % of it's color.No exposure to direct sun. They turned out nice,good sound,and I am pleased. A bit harder to bend and the biggest problem was the sanding dust.It tends to get on every thing . Don't wear your Sunday clothes while working with it. Mine were not splintery but maybe the wood varies quite a bit. Still have a few sets left and will certainly use it again.
Tom
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
westca wrote:
Don't wear your Sunday clothes while working with it.


Or wash those clothes with the regular laundry- unless you fancy pink clothing.
;)
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Yup it's really dusty....makes pink stuff everywhere. But I used it recently on a neck...and it turned out to be fantastic!

Here it is:
Image
Image
Author:  coke_zero [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Chris aka Sniggly wrote:
Yup it's really dusty....makes pink stuff everywhere. But I used it recently on a neck...and it turned out to be fantastic!

Here it is:
Image
Image


O now that I like.
Author:  fric [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
this is my first build with latice bracing and after 3 year stil remain same color...
but I find that there is differnt Padauk, some is laight red color and laight weight and one with dark red color which is heavier
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
IME , padauk is nowhere near walnut or EIrw to bend - they both bend like butter .. padauk is much tougher, more like wenge - lots of springback, use lots of heat.
Author:  coke_zero [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
fric wrote:
this is my first build with latice bracing and after 3 year stil remain same color...
but I find that there is differnt Padauk, some is laight red color and laight weight and one with dark red color which is heavier


How thick were your back and sides?
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Tony, thanks for chiming in...I was beginning to think it was just me.
What I mean is that Padauk is one of the most difficult woods I've ever tried to bend. Perhaps it was the set (s), but there was complete resistance to my will. Nonetheless, I've used it 3 or 4 times and still love the stuff.

And those guitars are years old, and still red in coulour by the way.

Steve
Author:  fric [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
coke_zero wrote:
fric wrote:
this is my first build with latice bracing and after 3 year stil remain same color...
but I find that there is differnt Padauk, some is laight red color and laight weight and one with dark red color which is heavier


How thick were your back and sides?



side 2.5 mm
back 4 mm
Author:  RaymundH [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
I have a padauk/englemann nylon crossover awaiting finish as I type this.

I bent it at eighty thou wrapped in spritzed kraft paper and foil at 360 ish on my Blues Creek bender. Bent it with patience and had zero issues on splintering or spring back. (smelled wonderful as well).
The dust...Keep the collector or shop vac close or it will color everything in a 12 city block radius!! Also, if you sand it anywhere near the soundboard (binding or rosette) make sure you vac or blow off the dust. This stuff will bleed like crazy if/when you introduce any moisture!
I pore filled with Z-Poxy and it was a breeze. Two applications and a 50-50 (meth alc/z-poxy) wash coat.
Padauk makes for one STIFF back and side set when completed and hopefully will complement the Englemann lattice braced top when done. The coloring has remained the same since day one, however, it has not been exposed to UV (sun) for any lengh of time.

Love the stuff.

Ray
Author:  Jake Archer [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
I made my 10th guitar out of padauk (a padauk/engelmann dred, which sounded lovely btw) and experienced little difficulty when working it. I used our homemade "fox" bender for the sides, which were 2mm thick (back was 3 piece, 2.5mm thick), and I have to say, that I had fewer difficulties bending it than I have any of the other species i have bent (which includes walnut and sapele). The only thing I will warn you against is the dust, make sure you have a decent dust collection system or cover your tools and other items you don't want to turn red - padauk dust has a thing for finding it's way onto EVERYTHING (including your sinuses...wear a mask) The pores are deep, and if you want a glossy look (which I do) then you'll need to take plenty of time to fill with zpoxy, crystal-laq, or other similar product. I feel it is a great wood to work with for us luthiers, and encourage you all to give it a try.
Author:  Alan [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Alan Carruth wrote:
All woods eventually end up brown. Get over it. pfft



Great! I have a few sets of Ossage Orange that I haven't used yet because I'm not overly fond of the color. How long before it turns a nice brown color? :D
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Osage, alas, takes some time. I've got stock that's more than 15 years old, and it's turning a decent brown, but, of course, as soon as you sand it... A friend of mine mistook some Oasge for BRW once. Oh, and finish slows the color change quite a lot.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about Padauk
Alan Carruth wrote:
Oh, and finish slows the color change quite a lot.


I've got a 1981 guitar with padauk binding- nitro finish- which has spent most of its life in the case, and the binding is still quite 'orange'-looking. So, as mentioned already, UV-and lack of finish- has a lot to do with the color change.

Cheers
John
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