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Cocobolo replacement http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26914 |
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Author: | Haans [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Cocobolo replacement |
Well, after several Coco instruments, I've started to break out in a rash. ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Bill Hodge [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Have you tried Jacaranda? |
Author: | Tom West [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Honduran rosewood....? |
Author: | Edward Taylor [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
I think padauk can look a fair bit like cocobolo, and it is a true rosewood isn't it? |
Author: | Bill Hodge [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Edward Taylor wrote: I think padauk can look a fair bit like cocobolo, and it is a true rosewood isn't it? Padauk is a sort of cousin to rosewood but not a true rosewood. It's of the Botanical Classification Pterocarpus dalbergiodes and all true rosewoods are of the Botanical Classification Dalbergia. (IE Dalbergia Retusa = Cocobolo, Dalbergia Nigra = Brazillian Rosewood, etc. etc.) There are other woods called Rosewood that have many of the characteristics such as Bolivian Rosewood (Morado) etc. but they are not true rosewoods. Many are acceptable substitutes for Rosewood by some instrument and many furniture builders. |
Author: | Edward Taylor [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Thanks for the correction Bill, I just saw dalbergiodes and assumed it was a rosewood. |
Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Hi Hans, I just built a downdraft sanding area and bought a couple of $6 disposable "hazmat" type suits to deal with Cocobolo (after getting a pretty good rash.) Walnut and Cedar get to me too, but not nearly as bad. Dedicating one day to scraping and at least preliminary sanding, and maybe one more day for final sanding, that means a total of about $23 for the 2 hazmat suits (including shipping.) For the downdraft table, holes were drilled through an area of shop countertop, a sloped box built beneath and connected with a blast gate to the dust suction, and an open enclosure (isn't that an oxymoron?) was built to sit on top and contain the dust left, back, right, and top (as well as make the suction more effective.) Supposedly, you can also smear some anti-poison ivy stuff on your arms before you start, and that keeps the oils out of your pores - but my rash was bad enough that I decided to find a disposable hazmat suit (pants, tunic/shirt with hood, nitrile gloves, N95 mask - all for about $6.) For me, the minor dust of cutting was no bother, and bending had no effect, but when the fine dust started wafting, I got the rash. So, I figure I can still use Cocobolo - such a gorgeous, high density, ringing wood - and just plan to dedicate one to two (max) days as a 'boy in a bubble' to keep the dust off my skin. To answer your question... you might try Granadillo (Platymiscum spp.) hard, dense, ringing, closed pores, floral smelling when cutting. Most of it is a relatively bland rose/burgundy, but some of it has some darker streaking. Katalox is hard to find well quartersawn and big enough, darker and less grain variety than Cocobolo, but is again dense, hard, and ringing. Some Bubinga could compare favorably with some Cocobolo. I'm building one in Osage Orange, chemically altered to black using high-tannin tea, followed by ferrous acetate (iron dissolved in vinegar.) The Osage Orange itself has little tannins, so if you were to artistically apply the tannin tea, symmetrically, heavier and lighter streaks, or maybe a full-on Jackson Pollock tantrum, you might be able to get some cool patterns... Dennis |
Author: | Haans [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Thanks guys! I thought I read somewhere that Honduran gave folks problems too. Maybe that was Bolivian... Dennis, I've got a downdraft table, air scrubber, cyclone dust collector, but I might have to draw the line at getting suited up to build guitars. My rash is pretty much just on my neck, but I am starting to itch all over. I think I will stop using it for laminated bracing and go back to cutoffs of BRW or blackwood, maybe even walnut or ebony. |
Author: | TonyFrancis [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
- |
Author: | Hesh [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Honduran is one of my favorites too and not only for the glassy tap tone - I like the way it looks. Attachment: DSCN1207rr.jpg Attachment: DSCN1209rr.jpg Attachment: DSCN1217rr.jpg Attachment: DSCN1218rr.jpg Honduran makes a BRWish sounding guitar, is available well quartered, works well and bends well, and the one strike against it is that it is not all that cheap anymore but then what is.... I like it! |
Author: | ChuckG [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Look into Palo Escrito. Chuck |
Author: | Tom West [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Hesh : Two very nice guitars, I love Honduran but have only done a couple of guitars from it.One is having the finish put on and I'm waiting for the nitro to gas off a bit.It will sing in the next week or two. Fillippo: I know that Padauk has dust that gets over every thing,but it has a very nice tap tone and makes a nice guitar. A bit hard to bend sometimes and you need a gallon of fill to close off the pores. If you can put up with it's shortcomings it's worth the effort. Tom |
Author: | coke_zero [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Filippo Morelli wrote: IMHO Padauk is a nightmare ... at least the stick that came through my shop kicked nasty red resin EVERYWHERE. My bandsaw was never the same. Porous as anything. Won't enter my shop again. Honduran tends to have huge tap tone. Boring looking wood, in general. Folks comment positively about Osage Orange, but again pretty off-the-beaten-path when it comes to looks. EIR is a great choice. Filippo Ot-oh #2 is going to be Padauk. I hope my piece isn't as bad as yours! |
Author: | woody b [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
To my ears Honduran (Dalbergia stevensonii) is brighter than Braz, Coco, or EIRW. (I really like it though). I'd consider Dalbergia tucerensis, which is called Panama Rosewood, Amazon Rosewood, or even sometimes Honduran Rosewood to be a good Coco substitute. It's not as red as some Coco. It's easier to work with, and more stable. |
Author: | Chris Oliver [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Haans... I have to agree with the Honduran folks. I get the sniffles and watery eyes from coco and even sniffles from macassar but not Honduran. I use this in my rosewood dreads.. for sound and comfort. You may have to search a little longer to find the really pretty cuts, but they are out there. Let me know if you want to see if it gets you sniffly or into a rash... I'll send you a cut-off and you can rub it all over yourself. ![]() chris |
Author: | dberkowitz [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
If you're allergic to Cocobolo, you're likely to be allergic to Morado (Bolivian Rosewood). Most tropical hardwoods -- dalbergias, morado, ziricote contain compounds known as dalbergiones, but in particular (R)-3,4-dimethoxydahlbergione. There is an (S) 4,4-dimethoxydahlbergione as well. You'll find it to some degree in East Indian rosewood as well, but not nearly as much as in cocobolo, zircote, and morado. |
Author: | Ti-Roux [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Bill Hodge wrote: Have you tried Jacaranda? Jacaranda is just the portugese word to say "rosewood" |
Author: | Alan [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
In the past I've seen Jacaranda used for Brazilian Rosewood, but not so much since it has gotten so expensive. I see it used a lot now for Indian Rosewood, usually at a significant mark-up. Ti-Roux wrote: Bill Hodge wrote: Have you tried Jacaranda? Jacaranda is just the portugese word to say "rosewood" |
Author: | Bill Hodge [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Ti-Roux wrote: Bill Hodge wrote: Have you tried Jacaranda? Jacaranda is just the portugese word to say "rosewood" You are indeed correct. There is one variety of wood from some of the Pacific islands referred to as Jacaranda that as Alan said is used as a sub for BRW. There is another variety also marketed simply as Dalbergia. Then yet another in Brazil (also used as a BRW sub). Tulip Wood is sometimes referred to as Jacarandá Rosa. Genuine BRW (Dalbergia Nigra) is sometimes referred to as Jacarandá, Jacarandá De Brasil among many other names. In other cases Cocobolo is referred to as Jacarandáholz. All that to say I should have been a bit more specific when referring to "Jacaranda". It was just one of those "drive by postings" I suppose. ![]() |
Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Haans wrote: ... Dennis, I've got a downdraft table... Hi Hans, Do you have an upper enclosure for the downdraft table? I know that down at the surface of the table there is great suction, but 5" away maybe it's not strong enough. Seems like somehow, the Cocobolo dust is becoming airborne. Also, the full hazmat suit is probably overkill, as the main problem areas are arms and neck (when exposed), so maybe a long sleeve disposable shirt only would handle it. I know some people talk about wearing long sleeved regular shirts, but that could mean putting lots of Cocobolo dust in the washing machine, and I'm not so sure that's a great idea if the oils end up spreading to other clothes. I'm looking for paper alternatives to the plastic-y Tyvek-like typical disposable clothes. Dennis |
Author: | Bill Hodge [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Dennis Leahy wrote: Haans wrote: ... Dennis, I've got a downdraft table... I'm looking for paper alternatives to the plastic-y Tyvek-like typical disposable clothes. Dennis Dennis, I know Kimberly Clarke used to make paper disposable clothing though I haven't really looked into that for a number of years since I've been using the Tyvek suits. I buy the Tyvek to use specifically for spraying or when I'm processing a lot of Cocobolo. I think the paper would work perfectly for dust but not so sure about spray finishing. But then, that's in another topic. ![]() |
Author: | Tim L [ Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Haans, Nobody has mentioned D. Maritima or Bois de Rose. It is hard and heavy like Coco and Hounduran Rosewood and also has a lively tap tone. I have never actually built with it though. As far as wild figure goes not much comes close to Coco IMHO. Tim |
Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Bill Hodge wrote: Dennis Leahy wrote: I'm looking for paper alternatives to the plastic-y Tyvek-like typical disposable clothes. Dennis,Dennis I know Kimberly Clarke used to make paper disposable clothing though I haven't really looked into that for a number of years since I've been using the Tyvek suits. With my new downdraft sanding station (with an enclosure - open only in the front) I may not need the hazmat suit during sanding operations. I'm gun-shy to try bare-armed sanding Cocobolo right after going through a pretty nasty rash, but maybe I'll brave a test later. Now I need to make some sort of portable troji-lite that I can put over top of the downdraft area, for scraping bindings (that operation, of course, raises fine shavings from the rims as well as from the bindings themselves.) Dennis |
Author: | Parser [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
I have a friend who has serious issues with Macassar Ebony - watch out for that one..! |
Author: | Darryl Young [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Cocobolo replacement |
Very nice Woody. How does the tone of this wood compare to the other rosewoods? Who carrys nice looking sets? woody b wrote: To my ears Honduran (Dalbergia stevensonii) is brighter than Braz, Coco, or EIRW. (I really like it though). I'd consider Dalbergia tucerensis, which is called Panama Rosewood, Amazon Rosewood, or even sometimes Honduran Rosewood to be a good Coco substitute. It's not as red as some Coco. It's easier to work with, and more stable.
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