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Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26912		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cwood8656 [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Hey all,

I'm getting ready to assemble my first guitar using a bolt on neck, rather than a dovetail. A question for those using these, do you put some glue on the mortise and tenon as well as under the fingerboard extension? Or do you rely on the bolts? It feels right to me to put some glue on the sides of the mortise/tenon joint for insurance. This is a neck from Hanelei Moon, FYI.

Let me know your thoughts.

TIA,

Chris.
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
I use only bolt on necks and my understanding is the purpose is NOT to glue. This makes for quick easy removal to do resets and or other maintenance regarding the neck.
Author:  Alan [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
No glue on the mortise and tenon. The bolts will hold it fine.

Alan
Author:  cwood8656 [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. Do you put anything on the threads like thread locker? Seems to me like it might loosen up over time.

Chris.
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
I don't and have had no problems. Can't speak for the others however.
Author:  Ken C [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Chris,

Agree with the others--don't use glue on the mortise and tenon. I also do not glue down the fingerboard extension. If you did a good job with the neck angle and the fit, you can probably just float the fingerboard. I have built a couple with floating f/b extensions, and the extensions sit tight against the top with no rattling or vibrations. I refined the process a bit for the last two, though, and devised a bolt down f/b extension. Makes neck removal a two minute job.

Ken
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
If you are using a Martin kit , I suggest you glue it , that was its original design. To do a dry bolt on joint you should have 2 bolts .
Author:  hnuuhiwa [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
bluescreek wrote:
If you are using a Martin kit , I suggest you glue it , that was its original design. To do a dry bolt on joint you should have 2 bolts .


John,

What if you added a second bolt to the Martin neck (in effect converting it to a two bolt design)? O.k. to skip the glue then?

Hen
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Chris buddy no glue required for one of Chris's very cool necks or any other true bolt-on commercially available neck except the Martin single bolt neck....

As mentioned the Martin single bolt neck was designed to be glued - stupid design that it is.... I have been doing neck resets on Martins with these single bolt necks lately and before we reassemble we convert to a two bolt system so yes Hen adding a second bolt to the Martin single bolt works great. Once converted we don't use glue on the joint, just the fret board extension.

If you look at all of the forces acting on a bolt on neck the existing bolts are really not doing any heavy lifting once everything is in place. They are primarily there just to keep everything in place. As such no need for any thread locker or 800 lb gorilla to tighten the bolts.... :D

I have not had any bolts loosen over time and I do check them during restrings.

For fret board extensions I like what Mario P. does and that is just a small puddle of Elmer's glue to hold the fret board extension in place. It's easy to release when and if you wanna take the neck off.
Author:  Alan [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
I used a Martin neck on one and did just that...added the second insert in the neck and used two bolts. Worked fine.


hnuuhiwa wrote:
bluescreek wrote:
If you are using a Martin kit , I suggest you glue it , that was its original design. To do a dry bolt on joint you should have 2 bolts .


John,

What if you added a second bolt to the Martin neck (in effect converting it to a two bolt design)? O.k. to skip the glue then?

Hen
Author:  Tom West [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Chris: If I had a bolt on neck with only one bolt I think I would not use any glue at first on the tenor just in case I wanted to do a bit of a touch up on the neck angle within the first 4 or 5 months. Then if all is ok glue if that makes you happy. On the two bolt necks the bottom bolt does the vast majority of the work and I think that a one bolt with the bolt centred in the heel might do just fine all by it's self.
Tom
Author:  cwood8656 [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Thanks again guys. It's not a single bolt neck from Martin, but a two bolt from Hanelei Moon. I'll go forward with only a little glue under the fingerboard extension. Heck, I may have this thing playing before the weekend is over.

Chris.
Author:  Kevin Mason [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
With respect to the fingerboard extension, if the extension is well seated to the top, what would be the reason for gluing it down? All of my recent guitars have been bolt-on and I have not glued the extension prior to stringing up so I can easily take the neck off if it needs some final fit adjustment after the instrument has done some settling in at tension. On each, I have yet to bother taking the neck off just so I can glue down the extension because I can't think of a reason to do it. There doesn't seem to be any immediate effect, but down the road, could there be a problem?
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Todd Stock wrote:
Bbbbbbbuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


I couldn't have put it any better!
Author:  Tom West [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Todd and Bill : Thats over my head...What are you saying..??
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
westca wrote:
Todd and Bill : Thats over my head...What are you saying..??


Referring to a loose or unsupported fretboard extension. One of many possibilities of buzz in the guitar over time if not immediately. Am I not correct Todd?
Author:  Tom West [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
Bill: OK I've got it now...Slow on the up take. Notes fretted on the unglued extension will also not have the same volumn. But I have long wondered about structural integrity. I am under the impression that an unglued extension does little to weaken a guitar. beehive
Tom
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bolt on necks, to glue or not glue?
I agree with Todd Stock in the Martin design can work but I feel the 2nd bolt would make it more reliable in case of failure. Yes you can add the 2nd insert and bolt to a Martin set up. I do use Hanalei necks on Blues Creek Guitar Kits , as they are reliable and high quality.
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