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Shop Done http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26793	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Jason Hall [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Shop Done
Well guys, I finished up my shop. At least as much as I'm going to do before Begin Building. I will add storage spaces as I need them.. I may add another plug or 2, but Overall, I'm happy with it. Here are some pics, I would like your critique. Thanks for looking. These pics are in order from before I started on the shop.. to the pretty much finished one: IN THE PIC BELOW, THIS HUGE SHELF THING WAS IN THE GARAGE WHEN I MOVED IT, IT BECAME MY BENCH-TOPS. IT'S 3/4 PLY

Author:	Brad Goodman [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
All I can say is ,you must be in OSB heaven! Nice shop-Congrats.

Author:	Jason Hall [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Yeah.. kind an optical illusion when u walk in.. I've stumbled sideways a time or 2. Went the cheap route when it came to walls.. I know drywall is cheaper, but I didn't want to always have to find a stud when attaching things to the walls.

Author:	Jim Kirby [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Looking like a usable space, and you've got enough helpers too! I hear you about not searching for studs in drywall.

Author:	Lillian F-W [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Todd is right. Its more usable than it was, but you will be thinking about redoing sooner than you think. It doesn't hit as strong as WAS or TAS, but it's always lurking in the back of your mind. Seems like you have infestation of pixies.

Author:	Hesh [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Looks great Jason!!! Your kids are having fun too. Are you planning on using one of the top shelves as the top part of your go-bar deck? Great job!

Author:	Mark Groza [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Very Nice Jason! Looks like you have plenty of bench space, something i need more of. I like the wood floor too. Makes it easier on your feet. Great job.

Author:	Link Van Cleave [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Jason, congrats and it looks great. Those two kids are about the cutest things I have seen in a while. You going to paint white or leave natural ? Link

Author:	Ed Haney [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Jason, Congrats on the shop. It looks very functional. I know you are happy to have one and to be "finished". I started building mine in a portion of my garage about 2 1/2 months ago AND doing a garage make-over (paint, shelves, epoxy floor), but I am not "finished". I do see light at the end of the tunnel. It looks like you only did a portion of your garage. Did you build a partition wall? How many square feed did you end up with? How long did it take you to do it? Exactly how did you do your OSB flooring? (poly sheet, insulation, runners, OSB, nails, urethane finish ??) Ed

Author:	Jason Hall [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Thanks for the kind words folks! Hesh: I made it so both the deep benches on either side of the room, can hold go-bars. I can't get at what ever I'm clamping, like a rotating go-bar deck, but I traded that for all the extra area that can also be used a go-bar deck. I'm debating on whether I should install a shelf over my longer and narrower bench next to the door so I can get at 3 sides for easy clean up or w/e.. you can see what I mean in the pics. Link: I was going to paint, then decided not too, as I thought I had adequate lighting. But after putting the shelves up, and seeing white caulk lines (caulking right now actually.. took a break to check the OLF) all over every seam.. I think I will paint from the benches to the ceiling. I have a bunch or white peg-board that I'm going to put on the back walls of the 2 deep benches (ones with shelves over them), so I wont paint behind those. My kids think its a play room with bunk beds.. I'm gonna have to put a lock on the door...

Author:	Jason Hall [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Ed: Yes I built a partition wall, almost exactly half the garage. I would have gone bigger.. but then I felt like I should have just insulated the whole thing, and controlled it all. But I like the clean side/dirty side idea, and it should be cheaper to control environmentally. It's about 130 sq. ft. ALSO, I had a thread on here asking if I should cover all the stud walls and the ceiling with plastic, and the consensus was yes. So that's what I did. It took me about 3-4 weeks, but I couldn't work straight through it, wanted to, but funds ran short for a week, some stuff had come up. Anyways.. that only slowed me down for about a week. So 3 weeks is pretty accurate. I could work on it for long hours though, I'm laid off from General Gangsters.. whoops, I meant General Motors. I'm about 4 months into a 16 month or so lay off. As for the flooring.. not sure I did it totally right but, I bought furring strips from Lowes, laid them about 10 in. apart, in the window to garage door direction. I figured walking across them is better than walking in between them for months.. I'd probably damage the floor.. at least that's what I was thinking. I then covered the furring strips with 6mil plastic for a vapor barrier. I used 7/16 OSB for EVERYTHING. I think I bought about 26 sheets or so, used them for the shelves too though. Bench tops are 3/4 ply. I wish I would have made the benches with a few inches of overhang for clamping, (realized this halfway through, so one side has an overhang, and the opposite bench doesn't). I made mistakes.. but it was a blast to build! Now for the actual GUITAR...

Author:	Markus Schmid [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Congrats Jason! I'm going green with envy, especially because of your two high-level managers (precious picture!) P.S. Jason Hall wrote: [...] Now for the actual GUITAR... Probably you should have built a shop like this? (Just for getting rid of the "problem" to build the "actual" guitar )

Author:	Link Van Cleave [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Quote: My kids think its a play room with bunk beds.. I'm gonna have to put a lock on the door... Ha, now you know what your next project is going to have to be. Link

Author:	Ed Haney [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Jason, My size (155 sq ft) is close to yours. I've been doing it on weekends which is the main reason I'm not finished after 2 1/2 months. I wish I could work on it full time to knock it out. The other critical reason is the constant re-handling and re-shuffling of all the junk in my garage to make room to work (since I'm re-doing the bigger garage side too at the same time.) Anyway, I am anxious to be in your position. Congrats again. I only put benches on one long wall side to start with since one of the tips I got from the forum was to leave some open space even with a very small shop such as mine. I figured I can always add more later if needed. I put a window A/C in and will use electric heat (not much heating needed in Houston area.) I painted all my walls and ceiling white (all drywall) except the new plywood partition wall which I left natural and sealed with polyurethane. I put in 5000 Kelvin 4' fluorescent tubes to give me noon day sun light (realistic color rendition) which is good for photos and observing/determining finished colors. You may want to get some polyurethane made for floors down so the OSB will be resistant to flaking and coming apart under your feet. Good luck on your first build. Ed

Author:	Jason Hall [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Thanks Ed, your tip about the floor is spot on. The floor is already duller than when i installed it, and it already shows signs of wear from the short time I've been in there. I'll have to look into sealing it.. or putting mats down or something.

Author:	Darrin D Oilar [ Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
I've seen OSB sanded and finished with a satin clear that actually looks pretty nice. I like the look of you shop. I remembered the CAD drawings you had posted several weeks ago. It turned out nice. I'm sure you will continue to adapt and modify as time goes on. But it'll be nice to move in and get started. Congrats. As far as finding studs, as I'm in the process of outfitting my shop, I plan on a dot of paint at the bottom of the footing where every stud is to help find them. I know it isn't necessarily relevant to your shop, but may help others. Darrin

Author:	Jason Hall [ Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Ugh the smell... I'm worried about it. I just finished caulking a few days ago, and after drying, I shut the door and came back 24 hrs later. Overwhelming OSB smell dang near knocked me out.. will it be this way forever? If I paint will it go away? (after the paint smell does) I'm nervous that with me being shut up in there, and after I get the environment under control, that it could damage my lungs or something.. burn up some brain cells .. LOL I won't be able to really air it out then, or my RH and temp will get all outta whack. Someone tell me it will fade.. please..

Author:	gozierdt [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Jason, Great shop- you'll really enjoy having a space that's really usable for building guitars. As far as the smell, it will definitely get weaker- this is the first time all those surfaces have had a chance to outgas since the OSB was made. But I'd guess it'll take several weeks at a minimum. I don't know where you're located, but if the weather is decent, putting a fan in the room, or leaving the garage door up will help a lot. I'd let it outgas a week or two before painting over the walls. If you paint over it, the OSB will still want to outgas, but it'll take a lot longer because the paint acts as a vapor barrier.

Author:	Rod True [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Jason great job and your kids look really cute up there! I used OSB for my walls and ceiling and painted them with zinssers 1-2-3 sealer. It's white and really seals well. I used 2 coats everywhere I had exposed OSB. I was worried that the OSB would off gas for a long time as that's what I read several years ago regarding OSB. You don't want to be sniffing that off gassing for extended periods of time. Seal it up and you won't be wondering about what is happening to you.... I too would have liked to have a clean room with humidiy control and a separate tool room, next shop hopefully, so enjoy that part of your set up. Your benches look great to me. As for overhanging the edges, I don't think you need to worry about that as you can just clamp to the bottom of the 2-4 frame for a more stout lower clamping caul. You might want to double up one of the bench tops with some maple or something and than plane it flat so you have a good solid flat surface to reference off. Great start. As Todd and Lillian already mentioned, a shop is never "finished" it's just in a resting phase till the next idea comes along. I've been in my little shop (see signature line) for almost 5 years now and my how it's changed over that time..... Good job though. Now enjoy it Oh, and great playing on the Andy McKee song! Wish I had skills like that!

Author:	Jason Hall [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
I did some reading since your replies Rod and gozierdt, I didn't know anything about out-gassing. I thought is was just the way the wood smelled, now I'm a bit concerned. I read it is most likely releasing formaldehyde in the gas, and that's it really not safe to breath. I wish I had known about it, I would have used drywall or something.. I also read it can indeed take months for it to be safe to spend time in there when its sealed up. Rod, the sealer you used, what was it called exactly? I went to the website and its not really clear to me what would be the best to seal the walls up and make it safe to breathe in there. There are a couple items named 1-2-3, Bullseye and Bullseye PLUS. I've had the room ventilating since I finished it, and a lot of the walls were up before the door and ceiling were up, so I know it's been gassing for a while. Only when I caulked it all up, and put the door on did it get really strong. Most breezes we get here come from the direction the window opens to, and I've had the window, garage door, and the side door all open for most the day on days its not raining. Is it really as big a deal as I'm thinking..? I plan to seal it now, but should I go all out or what.. Thanks in advance. ..And rod, thanks for the compliment on my playing! That was many hours worth of takes..played it probably 25-30 times before a good one. It's amazing how hard it is to play a song with little or no mistakes.. I doubt I could ever do it that good again.. luck definitely deserves some of the credit.

Author:	Ken McKay [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
As for the OSB, I did some research into the off gassing and occupational issue a couple of years ago. Most all of the research said it was safe. It is a mild irritant while it off gasses. Think about it, many new houses are built with it and are made to be fairly air tight. I would also recommend painting it (white). Put a coat of the zinsner or other latex primer on first and follow with your paint. It will be good for years and years. And will give you some nice light also.

Author:	Rod True [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Jason, I'm pretty sure I used this stuff and put two coats on. Once sealed you shouldn't have any off gassing issues. One thing you can do is go to the paint store and ask them what the best product is for sealing OSB for your workshop. I'm guessing they'll lead you to this or something very similar. For the floor, you probably could tint it a gray color or something so it doesn't look dirty from walking on it. I liked the zinssers because it is water based and clean up was easy, it dried quickly and looks just fine after 5 years (a bit dusty in my shop though ) Don't fret over it Jason. Just give it a good seal and you'll be good to go! I don't regred for one minute using OSB in my shop. I love being able to attach things to the wall where ever I want. If I need something really held fast, I find a stud, which is easy to do as I can see the screws in the OSB where the studs are.

Author:	Jason Hall [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shop Done
Thank you guys.. you put my mind a ease! Jason

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