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What brand of catalyzed Polyester
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26763		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  What brand of catalyzed Polyester
What brand of catalyzed Polyester is Joe White using ? and where can it be bought ?

I have set up spraybooth now with fireproof fan etc. so I wanted to try the Cat Poly.

Lars.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
PM sent


and I still think that you looked like one stupid hippy but I kept that thought to myself..... :D
Author:  woody b [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
I don't intent to speak for Joe, but I'm pretty sure he uses or at least used to use Lawrence Mcfadden R-1775 polyester, with Mcfadden R-1704/CV-2117 "Rosewood" sealer. Lawrence Mcfadden is out of business. They were bought out by another company, but the last thing I heard was all of their formulas are tied up in bankruptcy court.

I "think" Mario uses Reslack Polyester from Chemcraft, but I'm not sure about that. I don't know what sealer he uses.

I've used Lawrence Mcfadden polyester in the past, but I'm not using any polyester now. If I need to do a polyester finish in the future I plan on asking Mario exactly what he uses, and also asking Joe if he's ran out of Mcfadden and switched to something else. It's easier for me to ask smart people than it is to do the research myself. wow7-eyes
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Michael Collins (the Selmer/Macaferri MC) uses the Chemcraft UV stuff and likes it a lot, but said it takes some getting used to at first. Their isolante is also a great product (cures in 20 minutes VS 24 hours for the McFadden stuff).
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Thanks alot to you all . why are these kinds of things so hard to find through the internet !!!! . I am looking all over but its not easy to find.
Right now I am spraying a top with epifanes varnish. but its a 24 huer drying time !!!!!! . enoying to have to wait that long. just to sand and then spray again, then 24 huers more. puhu. any suggestions how to cheat on time :D

Lars.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Rule number one in finishing - don't get impatient
Rule number two - see rule number one

You might try the cat urethanes. You can get some good ones or your side of the pond. You are still looking at a couple of coats a day with an overnight dry time thought before you can level and respray.
Author:  peterm [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Robbie O'Brien wrote:
Rule number one in finishing - don't get impatient
Rule number two - see rule number one

You might try the cat urethanes. You can get some good ones or your side of the pond. You are still looking at a couple of coats a day with an overnight dry time thought before you can level and respray.



Lars,
if you want to save time and UV cured finish is the way to go.... 6 to 10 minutes is all it takes.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Thanks alot for the advises. Well right now 24 huers per spray, seem a little long to wait :-) . Peter, UV cured finish, any advice on product ? Robbie I will look into cat uruthanes.
I just found out that my little miniature cummunist country have banned all polyesters, hmm. this place is a big pond of rules and regulations. where noone is allowed to stick out. A general rule here is "if you are good at something - keep it to yourself. Sweden !!!! dont know how I got to this hahaha. well late I guess :D
Also UV cured finish - do I just need to build a small booth with some UV lights around the guitar ?

Lars
Author:  fric [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Lars try this. I use it often
mix two components ratio 1:1 than brush, spray etc after 1 hour it's dust free ...
I think Europian market is covered with this

I spray on this way,
make fog with gun and spray one layer , pause 10-15 min then spray another layer and so on 6 times live it to dry 24h and after light sanding do second hand, after 5 day I polish it with 3M
best
fric
Author:  LRegnier [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Hi Guys,

I have only seen commercially available lamps systems (Ovens) which can be quite expensive especially for the amateur builder.
Is their low cost solutions available on the market ? Cost would certainly be a major factor for switching systems.

A couple of years ago I had to opportunity to get a demo of a UV finishing application at the Chemcraft labratory
and I was amazed not only by the extremely quick cure time but also at the high performance (Strength/Durability/Abrasion Resistance)
of the UV finish.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Cheers - Luc
Author:  woody b [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Handheld lights are available from UV III systems. http://www.uv3.com/
UV cured finishes are without a doubt the quickest finish. I'm not convinced it's the best finish, or how save using these lights are.
Author:  LRegnier [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Hi Woody,

Thanks for the link, good info !

Luc
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Thank you all for the great input. will check out whats been advised [:Y:] .

Lars
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
I know for a fact after talking with Mike Collins about it, that the light cost about 1000 bucks, and you need full welding gear and goggles to use it .. the thing gets hot, and it can blind you. The full tank type stuff costs even more, and you need some sort of mechanism to move the light up and down and special foil to reflect the light. Filtering and a fan to ove air thru as well, to remove heat. It also needs to be the correct wavelength for the finish in question.

A friend of mine is looking to get set uyp here in the Toronto area, and he is ahving trouble finding anything out about the whereabouts of Mcfaddens product .. what the heck are the big guys who use this stuff doing ???
Author:  grumpy [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
McFadden's went tits-up a while back. No matter, I haven't been using their stuff for years, having found the Chemcraft/AkzoNobel polyester to be superior in every way and easily available on this side of the 49th. Tell your friend to write me if he's serious. No need for lights and any other gizmo's, either unless he's finishing 200+ guitar each day. A chemical cure will get 'er done in 24 hrs. just fine...
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Cool Mario .. thanks .. he is serious about the UV though ... he also does cabinets for a living, and this wont be just for the stuff he builds, but mine, my students .. other locals ... wherever ....
Author:  Kevin Waldron [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
We have had fairly good success with "Cardinal Industrial Finishes" they had some bugs up front but most are gone now. They have worked hard to make things work for luthier after Mcfadden went defunk.

Kevin
Author:  LRegnier [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
More info from Chemcraft,

I was speaking with he fellows at Chemcraft and they do have a cat polyester
that is cured with peroxide and cobalt. You need a special spray gun that mixes
the peroxide and cobalt at the tip of the gun. Cobalt and peroxide mixed improperly
can ignite. Premixing the system can be done without the special gun but you only
have a pot life of 7 minutes. So as Mario mentioned no light needed.
The Chemcraft cat polyester is one of their best products for clarity, used for
high end furniture/cabinet finishing.

Luc
Author:  grumpy [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Ah...., no need for any special gun <rolls eyes>

Myself, as well as Rick Turner, Joe White, and countless others, do the chemical cure(cobalt and MEKP:AKA peroxide) with regular guns. We mix the cobalt into the day's or session's batch, then only add the MEKP to each loading of the gun. Clean the gun between coats. Pot life is closer to 15 minutes, and my gun is empty long before that ;) Dead simple. All coats, including the barrier coat, done in a couple hours' time(and you can work on other crap in between coats) and buff the next day if you wish. Many's the "serious" cabinetmaker who uses this type of system, especially since they'll only need one or two coats and no buffing; for them, it's a 5 minute finish that can be handled in 45 minutes and shipped the next day. UV? Don't need no stinkin' UV. Unless you're in a huge production where minutes count.

It's the same exact product, BTW; only difference is the chemicals we add; either a UV initiator or a catalyst.

A ton of misinformation is still floating about, I see. Ah well.. enjoy!
Author:  woody b [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
LRegnier wrote:
More info from Chemcraft,

I was speaking with he fellows at Chemcraft and they do have a cat polyester
that is cured with peroxide and cobalt. You need a special spray gun that mixes
the peroxide and cobalt at the tip of the gun. Cobalt and peroxide mixed improperly
can ignite. Premixing the system can be done without the special gun but you only
have a pot life of 7 minutes. So as Mario mentioned no light needed.
The Chemcraft cat polyester is one of their best products for clarity, used for
high end furniture/cabinet finishing.

Luc


Pot life is longer than 7 minutes. Once I had just added the MEKP and my electricity went off. I opened the door for some light (and venelation)I was able to spray the guitar then clean my gun with the air left in my compressors tank.

Polyester, as well as pretty much any other decent finish can be dangerous. Make sure you have the proper saftey equipment, and practice on some scrap.

Considering the use of proper protective equipment I fear long term exposure to UV more than I fear using chemical catalysts.
Author:  LRegnier [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What brand of catalyzed Polyester
Hi Woody and Mario,

Thanks for your input, this system is sounding very encouraging.
I'm going to try to arrange a session at the Chemcraft lab to finish my
next guitar and get proper training.

Cheers - Luc
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